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Anything new to stop GDI carbon buildup in the Telluride?

syadasti

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Toyota and Ford have both added port injection to their GDI engines to prevent carbon build up problems.


I've seen in Hyundai and Kia forums that some people have issues with carbon build up but I haven't experienced it myself in my 2.0T GDI Hyundai. It depends on your driving habits, mileage (I'm only at about 45K), fuel quality, and oil/oil change habits.

Just curious if anyone has seen anything, I haven't, that shows anything new to address the issue in the Telluride.

Makes the 2020 Highlander more attractive in that regard (plus certain engines in the new Explorer but that's an expensive option). Subaru supposedly isn't concerned about in their GDI engines like in the Ascent but GDI is pretty new for most brands and everyone is using it now.
 
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Razorback

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Toyota and Ford have both added port injection to their GDI engines to prevent carbon build up problems.


I've seen in Hyundai and Kia forums that some people have issues with carbon build up but I haven't experienced it myself in my 2.0T GDI Hyundai. It depends on your driving habits, mileage (I'm only at about 45K), fuel quality, and oil/oil change habits.

Just curious if anyone has seen anything, I haven't, that shows anything new to address the issue in the Telluride.

Makes the 2020 Highlander more attractive in that regard (plus certain engines in the new Explorer but that's an expensive option). Subaru supposedly isn't concerned about in their GDI engines like in the Ascent but GDI is pretty new for most brands and everyone is using it now.
The only thing I have read is to use Top Tier detergent gasoline and it will help reduce the build up. I purchase my fuel at Costco and they do use TopTier detergent so hoping that helps.
 

Big T

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Ford had a lot of problems with valve coking on their Ecoboost, and that is why they now have port and direct injection. There is a cleaner made by CRC, but the procedure involves spraying thru the throttle body every 10K miles. Some folks will add catch cans on the pvc system. I’m not crazy about DI in the T-ride. I, too, have begun to shop other brands that have followed suit with Ford.
 

RebelShadow

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I don't think it will be as bad of an issue as it was in the past. The Telly engine uses the atkinson cycle engine. You will have to do a little research to learn what it is to fully understand but in a nutshell the intake stroke is delayed, as a result the intake valve stays open longer whereby fresh full from the cylinder slightly escapes and will actually clean the valve if top gear fuel is used. this design also helps in fuel efficiency and economy.
 

Jhondo

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Any thoughts on the long-term durability of Kia's 3.8 GDI vs Toyotas dual injector usage to wash down the intake valve to prevent coking? This may be the only thing holding us back from getting the Telluride.
 

syadasti

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My thoughts are this. Kia provides us a 100,000 mile warranty on the powertrain. If they had any doubt about it’s long-term reliability, their warranty would be as short as Toyota....
Kia's warranty is based on their historical US brand identity, not their superior engineering like Toyota. Back when Kia was a joke they had the same warranty and reliability was bottom barrel. VW have long warranties now too but their still not as reliable as Toyota either.
 

ATL3630

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Kia's warranty is based on their historical US brand identity, not their superior engineering like Toyota. Back when Kia was a joke they had the same warranty and reliability was bottom barrel. VW have long warranties now too but their still not as reliable as Toyota either.
Plus carbon build up isn’t covered by warranty. It’s normal wear from use of the vehicle. Hyundai and Kia have denied warranty claims saying that the claimant used poor gasoline, skipped oil changes, used inferior oil, etc.
 

Big T

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I had a Ford F-150 Ecoboost, and Ford did warranty the coking. At that time, 2013, they would pull the heads; walnut shell blasting wasn’t enough. Having had that experience, I’m now very cautious with DI motors. Ford now has a dual injection system, but everything else around the motor is unreliable.
 

syadasti

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Plus carbon build up isn’t covered by warranty. It’s normal wear from use of the vehicle. Hyundai and Kia have denied warranty claims saying that the claimant used poor gasoline, skipped oil changes, used inferior oil, etc.
Also the Atkinson cycle doesn't cut it as some incorrectly said above, direct injection with port injection alone isn't the total solution either. The Highlander Hybrid is a Atkinson cycle 2GR-FXS engine but besides direct injection with port injection it goes further with a more robust solution:

From FSE to FKS: more than just dual Otto/Atkinson capability
Although the ability to alternate between modified Otto and Atkinson cycles is the major upgrade in the transition from FSE to FKS, it’s hardly the only change. This dual capability is facilitated by an upgrade from the old Dual VVT-i to VVT-iW on the intake camshafts (the W denotes the wider or expanded valve opening angles that increase fuel-efficiency at low engine loads) and “regular” VVT-i on the exhaust camshafts. Exploring Overland‘s Jonathan Hanson does a great job of explaining the 2GR-FKS’s technical intricacies. Other upgrades include a new reduced-friction oil sump and an exhaust manifold integrated into the cylinder head, a design whose benefits include lighter weight, the ability to use engine coolant to cool exhaust gasses and a structure that can make the addition of a turbocharger easier. (Don’t get us started on the traditional difficulty on cracking Lexus GR V6 ECU codes, though…) To quote Toyota Tacoma chief engineer Mike Sweers:
“One of my favorite parts of the engine is we eliminated the exhaust manifold on the engine and put that into the head of the cylinder head itself. So by doing that we can cool the exhaust gas. And by cooling the exhaust gas I don’t have to pump any raw fuel into the catalyst to keep the catalyst cool, because I’m not heating the catalyst up as much.”
A side benefit of the design: the catalytic converter is closer to the head, making theft less likely.
Yet, there is one more significant upgrade uncovered by Christie Schweinsberg of WardsAuto: self-cleaning fuel injectors that neatly solve the carbon buildup bugaboo that ails many direct-injection engines (including the Lexus IS 250’s DI-only 4GR-FSE). While decreased carbon buildup is touted as one of several benefits of the more complex D4-S dual direct + port injection used on the 2GR, it’s still not a panacea. As Mike Sweers explained to WardsAuto:

“…we have a slit on the side of our injector and we’re blowing that carbon off. If we tried to use just high pressure, using just the nozzle itself, you would clean the bottom of that nozzle. But since the carbon grows from the outside and comes around, you would still plug up that injector. So by cleaning on the outside of that, we get a clean injector all the time.”
Drivers may hear the self-cleaning taking place during a hot idle, and the process could last from 10 seconds to as long as 10 minutes, depending on driving patterns and the amount of build-up on the injectors.
“When you go into a hot-idle situation, the system is going to look at the time that it ran, the number of cycles the injectors went through, the temperature of the injectors and then it goes into a self-cleaning mode. Because we have the port injection, I can continue idling the engine without having any side effects.”
He compares the technology to a self-cleaning oven, as no additives are necessary.
“You stop at a light (and) it may clean for 10 seconds, you’re going to take off and stop at another light and it’s going to clean for (another) 10 seconds…
The 10-minute cleaning cycle occurs during longer idling, such as in a drive-thru line.
 

mrmac

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Kia's warranty is based on their historical US brand identity, not their superior engineering like Toyota. Back when Kia was a joke they had the same warranty and reliability was bottom barrel. VW have long warranties now too but their still not as reliable as Toyota either.
You live in the past, like fifteen years in the past.
 

syadasti

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You live in the past, like fifteen years in the past.
It helps if you can read:

Back when Kia was a joke they had the same warranty
Warranty isn't based off reliability alone as Kia themselves and now VW demonstrates - that's the bottom line.

Come back when you can address the actual changes, if any, for carbon build up in GDI engines - a problem across all brands.
 

mrmac

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Toyota' reliability is marginally better than Kia anymore, if at all. The fact is, Kia is on the hook for 100,000 miles.

Are you a professional fool, or just come by it naturally?
 

syadasti

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Toyota' reliability is marginally better than Kia anymore, if at all. The fact is, Kia is on the hook for 100,000 miles.

Are you a professional fool, or just come by it naturally?
If you've owned a hundred cars like you claimed you're not keeping them long and you're the fool wasting that much money.

Solving Gasoline Direct Injection Issues: The facts and fictions of GDI - Engine Builder Magazine

GM has seen its fair share of issues related to GDI and, according to Dickmeyer, OEMs like Kia, Hyundai and Ford have too.
There is the aftermarket catch can as a option, but that's not an viable solution for the average car owner.

Also it helps the manufacturers that carbon build causes problems many owners might not pick up on: rough idle (maybe but also keep in mind DI engines already sound closer to diesel valve clatter in normal operation), hard starts (maybe), decreased power/acceleration/fuel economy (maybe but the decrease is gradual), misfires(likely), and CELs (certainly and will prevent passing inspection).

There are Hyundai and Kia owners on forums that note their warranty doesn't cover the carbon build up issue, this can be ever 10-30K miles:


Rattling... "Carbon Buildup"?

Need help with carbon build up - Hyundai Forums : Hyundai Forum

More here too (note it mentions a measured gradual dyno loss of 5% in just 10K mi on the RS4): http://www.engineangel.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/SE-DI-09.pdf
 
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Telluride Forum

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My thoughts are this. Kia provides us a 100,000 mile warranty on the powertrain. If they had any doubt about it’s long-term reliability, their warranty would be as short as Toyota....
If Toyota's long-term reliability is bad or worse than KIA's, please start a new topic in the General Discussion area as I'd like to learn about it.
 
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