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EDR??

ga1322

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Is anyone familiar with Event Data Recorders? This is the first I’ve heard of one, but I’m sure they have been coming standard in newer vehicles. Are they required by law? Are they able to be disabled?
 

Buckeye-TRide

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I don’t think they’re required by law and I’m guessing you could disable/remove it from the vehicle but I’m not sure why you would unless you’re trying to set up some type of insurance scam. They only record a few seconds of input prior to a crash for reporting purposes.
 

ga1322

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Well , not really trying to set anything up or anything. I know the question sounds shady. I first of all just don’t like the capability of the vehicle recording all that info. Sure it’s only supposed to record during a crash, but Alexa is only supposed to listen when you talk to her. Secondly, I would hate to get in an accident (not my fault) and only be found the guilty party in court because they say my vehicle says I was going 2 mph over the speed limit.
 

Buckeye-TRide

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Well , not really trying to set anything up or anything. I know the question sounds shady. I first of all just don’t like the capability of the vehicle recording all that info. Sure it’s only supposed to record during a crash, but Alexa is only supposed to listen when you talk to her. Secondly, I would hate to get in an accident (not my fault) and only be found the guilty party in court because they say my vehicle says I was going 2 mph over the speed limit.
I’m not sure you have a solid grasp on case law or what these devices are used for. If you’re that concerned about it I would suggest you buy a 10-20 year old vehicle if you’re paranoid. Otherwise, I wouldn’t even think twice because it’s recording vehicle data for malfunctions and not whether the driver was impaired/speeding/running a red light. If you’re looking to sue a manufacturer for a malfunction or you commit vehicular homicide then a lawyer might subpoena that info...otherwise spend your time worrying about actual issues....
 

ga1322

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You really jumped to some conclusions there. As I stated, I know nothing about EDR, I just read how it could be used in the manual and I’d rather turn it off if possible.
 

Buckeye-TRide

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You really jumped to some conclusions there. As I stated, I know nothing about EDR, I just read how it could be used in the manual and I’d rather turn it off if possible.
I’m not sure what conclusion I jumped to...all I’m saying is it’s not something you should worry about. There isn’t a setting to turn it off and you’d probably need a professional to remove it from the car and somehow keep everything functional (might not be possible without interfering with other functions). If you get into an accident the insurance company isn’t going to retrieve that info to assign fault unless it’s an extreme extenuating circumstance like a malfunction.
 
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Vietvet

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"Black Box Tech".... This device has been discretely put in your vehicles...might I add, at your expense, for now decades. It records the events during an impending accident. As in gas feed and brake use and when. The info on it CAN be taken off without YOUR permission and used in legal proceedings against and for you. You will have a hard time...if ever... disabling it as it is hardwired into some of your safety equipment such as your airbags. This TECH is not new...just "new" to many of our consumer's realizing...too late.

Oh and it may not be the Insurance companies involved in retrieving the data but .... our legal system Can and Will get it if it is detrimental to a case .... Too late to be worried... Just remember..When you buy these vehicles... it is YOU PAYING for these devices "unknowingly"..Again..YOUR $$$$$$
 

the_anj

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I’m not sure you have a solid grasp on case law or what these devices are used for. If you’re that concerned about it I would suggest you buy a 10-20 year old vehicle if you’re paranoid. Otherwise, I wouldn’t even think twice because it’s recording vehicle data for malfunctions and not whether the driver was impaired/speeding/running a red light. If you’re looking to sue a manufacturer for a malfunction or you commit vehicular homicide then a lawyer might subpoena that info...otherwise spend your time worrying about actual issues....
I agree with you in that it's not something we should actively be worrying about. But I also "understand" the paranoia as I have my Alexa and any other IoT devices isolated away on a different VLAN at home... for paranoia's sake. But even with that I personally don't worry about the car's EDR and honestly I wonder how it would be viewed in court if the owner disabled it. I'm sure it would come into question if there was ever a case where the data retrieval was attempted.

At any rate, I do disagree that the only times it'll be extracted is during "extenuating" circumstances. Definitely in minor accidents where one police officer responds to place fault and exchange info it won't come into play. But any time a crash investigator responds it will likely be the first thing he does. And I say that because a county deputy that is that county's crash investigator told me as such. But it depends on the jurisdiction - the laws, and what crash justifies sending out the investigator. He gave examples of some crashes that weren't minor fenderbenders but weren't severe either. But he sure seemed proud to use the data to catch people in lies. Don't talk to the police I guess and let your lawyer defend your position of the data showing you were 2mph over the limit, if that's what is being worried about.
 
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ga1322

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I agree with you in that it's not something we should actively be worrying about. But I also "understand" the paranoia as I have my Alexa and any other IoT devices isolated away on a different VLAN at home... for paranoia's sake. But even with that I personally don't worry about it and honestly I wonder how it would be viewed if the owner disabled it. I'm sure it would come into question if there was ever a case where the data retrieval was attempted.

At any rate, I do disagree that the only times it'll be extracted is during "extenuating" circumstances. Definitely in minor accidents where one police officer responds to place fault and exchange info it won't come into play. But any time a crash investigator responds it will likely be the first thing he does. And I say that because a county deputy that is that county's crash investigator told me as such. But it depends on the jurisdiction - the laws, and what crash justifies sending out the investigator. He gave examples of some crashes that weren't minor fenderbenders but weren't severe either. But he sure seemed proud to use the data to catch people in lies. Don't talk to the police I guess and let your lawyer defend your position of the data showing you were 2mph over the limit, if that's what is being worried about.
Well said. As I was trying to say, I’m not paranoid or overly concerned about this. But I am the type of guy that likes to live out of the prying eyes of others. I am not oblivious to the fact that companies and government have the capability to watch our online activity and actively do so for various reasons. While I don’t live in fear of this, I do try to keep my personal life and information as personal and private as possible. So to know that my vehicle could be tracked as far as speed, gas and brake pedal pressure, and other things, is just something I would like to “opt out” of if possible. If I can’t... I will still drive and love to drive my Telluride. No biggie. Just posed the question to see if someone had technical knowledge of how it worked or legal knowledge of disabling. Thanks for you info regarding police use
 

Buckeye-TRide

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I agree with you in that it's not something we should actively be worrying about. But I also "understand" the paranoia as I have my Alexa and any other IoT devices isolated away on a different VLAN at home... for paranoia's sake. But even with that I personally don't worry about the car's EDR and honestly I wonder how it would be viewed in court if the owner disabled it. I'm sure it would come into question if there was ever a case where the data retrieval was attempted.

At any rate, I do disagree that the only times it'll be extracted is during "extenuating" circumstances. Definitely in minor accidents where one police officer responds to place fault and exchange info it won't come into play. But any time a crash investigator responds it will likely be the first thing he does. And I say that because a county deputy that is that county's crash investigator told me as such. But it depends on the jurisdiction - the laws, and what crash justifies sending out the investigator. He gave examples of some crashes that weren't minor fenderbenders but weren't severe either. But he sure seemed proud to use the data to catch people in lies. Don't talk to the police I guess and let your lawyer defend your position of the data showing you were 2mph over the limit, if that's what is being worried about.
EDR data belongs to the owner or lessee of the vehicle and a search warrant would be required to obtain the information and an expert witness would be needed to testify to the significance of the data. Cops aren’t out their downloading and analyzing black box data for run of the mill crashes because judges aren’t writing search warrants for it regularly. Not to mention, they can measure rubber patches on the road to determine if/when you applied the brakes and other forensic info from the scene to determine if you were speeding. If you cause a serious accident due to negligence your black box data probably isn’t going to be the things that puts you in hot water.
 

Vietvet

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EDR data belongs to the owner or lessee of the vehicle and a search warrant would be required to obtain the information and an expert witness would be needed to testify to the significance of the data. Cops aren’t out their downloading and analyzing black box data for run of the mill crashes because judges aren’t writing search warrants for it regularly. Not to mention, they can measure rubber patches on the road to determine if/when you applied the brakes and other forensic info from the scene to determine if you were speeding. If you cause a serious accident due to negligence your black box data probably isn’t going to be the things that puts you in hot water.
Soooooo...please explain why we have to pay for one in the first place???? Just curious and will defer to anyone who actually knows... If it were mine as well as the data, why can I not turn it off or make a print out of my own?
 

Buckeye-TRide

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Soooooo...please explain why we have to pay for one in the first place???? Just curious and will defer to anyone who actually knows... If it were mine as well as the data, why can I not turn it off or make a print out of my own?
Google it. I bet you they cost 5 cents to manufacture and were originally created to record whether your airbag deployed properly. You can get the data you just need a special device that pulls it from your OBDII port and the training to analyze it. Many states have privacy laws on the books about this exact topic. If yours doesn’t it might be worth a call to your representative.
 

ga1322

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After reading this article, I realize maybe a more realistic problem with it. It seems the auto maker may be able to manipulate the results in the event of a court case against them. Or maybe simply the box just isn’t accurate. In the case where the lady had her air bag deploy while driving down the road, the court still ruled in favor of GM, even though there was evidence to the contrary. I’m going to read the other cases and articles mentioned later.
 

Buckeye-TRide

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After reading this article, I realize maybe a more realistic problem with it. It seems the auto maker may be able to manipulate the results in the event of a court case against them. Or maybe simply the box just isn’t accurate. In the case where the lady had her air bag deploy while driving down the road, the court still ruled in favor of GM, even though there was evidence to the contrary. I’m going to read the other cases and articles mentioned later.
I don’t see where they said anything about a manufacturer manipulating the data. There was a jury involved and they found for GM because the EDM showed the airbag working “as designed”. We weren’t there so we can’t say what really happened nor did we engineer the car or sign off on the safety of said system like the NHTSA. It’s like the issues that Toyota was dealing with when their cars were accelerating when people were supposedly pressing the brake. While there was some instances of peddles sticking due to poor design and floor mats creating issues black box data also showed in many instances the brake pedal was never even touched. That data was critically important in understanding what was happening. If consumers want self driving cars they need to understand that without black box data the NHTSA and manufacturers aren’t going to risk deploying the technology. Every computer you can buy right now has an error log that creates records of malfunctions in order to diagnose and fix problems as they arise. Without it we’d be hard pressed to continue advancing technology.
 
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