KIA Leaving Money on the Table - No Bench SX

[MarkyMark]

If one wants a bench in an upper-end model, the highest end configuration that can be has is a base EX.

Adding Premium or Nightfall removes the second row bench, adding captains chairs.

It is frustrating, when a bench is wanted and/or needed, and yet SX features are also wanted...

All KIA need offer is the base SX with a bench, and captains chairs would be offered with a package (just as they do with the EX).

Why they are limiting people needing a bench second row at a base EX model is absolutely baffling. If I were the Tellurdie Product Marketing director I would have never launched this way - ever. Wow. Please tell me SOMEONE, even if the intern, has noticed this?!...

 

[2020Telly]

Canada offers the option of the bench on the top trim. I don’t think they are leaving money on the table because they can’t keep up with demand. The EX is not a bad deal and you get 18” wheels for the price point which is better for the added passenger weight. I think the issue is that once you start talking about the price point of an SXP and looking for 8 passengers you start losing the value prop of a large midsized SUV. More buyers spending $50k and 8+ seating are going to be looking at a larger full size SUV because that’s the entry point and you get more cargo space along with 8 or 9 seats. I think in the US they are just trying to stay in their lane. Many 3-row midsized SUVs offer 6 or 7. So the fact that there is a bench in any trim to get you 8 comfortably is a differentiator at the midsize category. But the full sized SUV it’s less impressive.

 

[2020Telly]

Thinking about it more, Hyundai is leaving money on the table. With this new automotive chip shortage that is impacting Ford and Chevy production, Hyundai could add a bench to the top trim Palisade. Hyundai and Kia stock piled anticipating a shortage for their supply chain while other manufacturers didn’t. The Telluride is probably at or very close to max production but the Palisade is assembled in a larger capacity plant. So if they did offer a high end 8 seater they might be able to steal some Chevy and Ford market share if the SUV production numbers slip.

 

[qwikhit]

If Kia thought they were losing sales because of the lack of a bench seat on the SX, you better believe it would be an option.

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[noles1983]

The Kia SX bench seat demand reminds of people complaining that Apple didn't make the small iPhone anymore. Well they did and it bombed massively. That is what would happen to Kia.

 

[Nightsky93]

If Kia thought they were losing sales because of the lack of a bench seat on the SX, you better believe it would be an option.

Ya I agree with that. I don’t think they are losing any at all to make them switch. Pretty sure most people still either get the lower trim with the bench or upgrade with captains cause after all the telluride is amazing no matter the seat combos.

 

[MarkyMark]

If Kia thought they were losing sales because of the lack of a bench seat on the SX, you better believe it would be an option.

The fact is, KIA DID leave money on the table with me, and in talking with others, they've done the same several times.

To clarify, they are not LOSING money. However, they are leaving money on the table. There is a difference, but that's what they are doing.

I can't buy a bench on the SX, which I would have purchased. Thus KIA was not able to get another $2k or so from me... I'm not alone in wanting this (state-side). Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the 2019 models did NOT have a bench option on the EX or the SX, correct? In 2020, they added a bench to the base EX as standard? Hopefully they will do so for the SX in 2021? We'll see..

 

[bruesjoh04]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the 2019 models did NOT have a bench option on the EX or the SX, correct? In 2020, they added a bench to the base EX as standard? Hopefully they will do so for the SX in 2021? We'll see..

There was no 2019 Telluride.

The 2020 EX released as bench only, it was only with the late-availability EX Premium package that captains chairs were added to the EX.

2021 for the EX is the same story, standard EX is a bench, adding the Premium package goes to captains.

Otherwise… no US-market SX has had a bench.

Every LX has a bench.

In 2020, a bench was a $100 option on the S model that disappeared for 2021.

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[jw_tx21]

The fact is, KIA DID leave money on the table with me, and in talking with others, they've done the same several times.

To clarify, they are not LOSING money. However, they are leaving money on the table. There is a difference, but that's what they are doing.

I can't buy a bench on the SX, which I would have purchased. Thus KIA was not able to get another $2k or so from me... I'm not alone in wanting this (state-side). Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the 2019 models did NOT have a bench option on the EX or the SX, correct? In 2020, they added a bench to the base EX as standard? Hopefully they will do so for the SX in 2021? We'll see..

I'd send an email to Kia USA consumer affairs asking them to add the bench option. The EX is a fine vehicle with the bench. Perhaps the biggest thing you give up are the memory seats. If you can live without that, get the EX.

I don't see them adding a bench to other trims right now - at least not until they can have the production capacity to make this option. Kia can't produce as many vehicles as say Toyota in the US. The stats show that Captain's Chairs are more popular - hence why Ford made them standard in current Explorer.

 

[MarkyMark]

There was no 2019 Telluride.

The 2020 EX released as bench only, it was only with the late-availability EX Premium package that captains chairs were added to the EX.

2021 for the EX is the same story, standard EX is a bench, adding the Premium package goes to captains.

Otherwise… no US-market SX has had a bench.

Every LX has a bench.

In 2020, a bench was a $100 option on the S model that disappeared for 2021.

Thanks! Yes, 2019 didn't exist (duh on my part). 2020, and 2021.

 

[2020Telly]

Thanks! Yes, 2019 didn't exist (duh on my part). 2020, and 2021.

The 2020 Kia Telluride started showing up in February 2019. A few months later I remember reading on this forum there was a supply shortage of captains chairs and they experimented with a few S models with a bench (rare) but then part way through 2019 they went back to the norm to what was advertised for the 2020s. Then in early 2020 they announced the changes for the upcoming 2021 which added some Premium package options and features to the EX. I remember test driving a bench and the earliest reviews and marketing were very focused on the bench seat and how roomy the Telluride was for a midsized SUV and 8 passengers. I still wasn't convinced that the button on the bench was going to be easier than my kids just walking through the middle row. I suspect the demand for the bench just wasn't what they thought it was going to be given that they ran out of captains chairs partway through the first year of manufacturing. I don't know why the Canadian SX Limited has a bench vs. captain chairs in the second row, but I think the percentage that get exported to Canada is significantly smaller than the number of US EX Premium, US SX or US SX Prestige.

 

[bruesjoh04]

I don't know why the Canadian SX Limited has a bench vs. captain chairs in the second row

The Canadian SX-L does not have a bench.

Only the regular SX has a bench in Canada. It is still missing a handful of features, including LED taillights. And of course, it doesn’t have all of the SX-L features, either. So really the same thing… you still can’t get a top trim with a bench. You can just get a slightly better equipped model with a bench in Canada.

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[2020Telly]

The fact is, KIA DID leave money on the table with me, and in talking with others, they've done the same several times.

To clarify, they are not LOSING money. However, they are leaving money on the table. There is a difference, but that's what they are doing.

I can't buy a bench on the SX, which I would have purchased. Thus KIA was not able to get another $2k or so from me... I'm not alone in wanting this (state-side). Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the 2019 models did NOT have a bench option on the EX or the SX, correct? In 2020, they added a bench to the base EX as standard? Hopefully they will do so for the SX in 2021? We'll see..

Very early marketing advertised for the US in late 2018 and early 2019 was basically three trims: LX, EX and SX. I think the original plan was LX-8seats, EX-8seats, and SX-7seats. The bench was initially advertised as this very easy access button. By contrast the Palisade is SE, SEL, Limited. SE (8-seats), SEL (7 or 8 seats), Limited (7-seats). Despite the marketing of this easy to use bench button, when I test drove a Telluride with a bench I was thinking it wasn't going to be easy enough for my kids to use and not hurt each other because of how hard it was to press and push forward not to mention with a booster seat installed the seats didn't fold easily enough for me. I personally didn't want a bench and I didn't want to pay for the highest trim, so I was resolved on getting the Palisade SEL with 7 seats or a Sedona minivan, because it appears that captains chairs are a luxury feature on this and most other midsized SUVs. Then around January 2019 Kia announced the S trim and they were going to offer an LX(8), S(7), EX(8), and SX(7). That brought me back to the Telluride S. For a brief period in 2019 they added a bench to the S when there was a captain chair shortage. Then later they added the Premium option to the EX with 7 seats. You can search for "bench" on this forum and find a good number of people wanting one on the SX . . . but I think the vast majority of SXs can sell without the bench and I think there are more people that want the captains chairs than the bench.

I did a quick glance at failcat and all time it looks like 7 seaters outsell the 8 seaters 2:1.

8 seaters manufactured:
LX FWD 9,176
LX AWD 9,320
EX FWD 19,320
EX AWD non-P 14,827
Total 8 seaters: 52,643

7 seaters manufactured:
EX AWD P 15,921 (N included)
S FWD 20,026
S AWD 22,986
SX FWD 11,668
SX AWD 30,748 (N included)
Total 7 seaters: 101,349

Digging further, broken down by transmission the 7 seaters still outnumber the 8 seaters made.

FWD 8 seaters 28,496
AWD 8 seaters 24,147
FWD 7 seaters 31,694
AWD 7 seaters 69,655

I don't think it's as profitable to offer 8 seaters in a mid-sized SUV and I think that's because people looking at the LX see it as a steal for an 8 seater new vehicle with so much space around 32-35k and even the the EX at 38k. But when you start for looking buyers willing to spend close to 50k or more it doesn't look like a value because you can find an entry level large sized SUV new (Yukon, Tahoe, Sequoia, Suburban, and Armada) or slightly used more luxurious model and for the same price you have more cargo space with 8 person seating. The Kia Telluride SUV no longer feels as spacious when compared to those larger truck based SUVs.

Economists have two different theories. Keynes' law is demand creates supply, while Say's law is supply creates demand. Given that the Tellurides have a wait time to order and those that go unsold don't sit on the lot for very long, I think this looks like Keynes law and you could argue the buyers want more 7-seaters. Since the mid-sized SUV market in the US is pretty hot for every manufacturer, I doubt they are pushing cars that people don't want, so it's possible that every manufacturer is leaving some money on the table since there are more people wanting this size vehicle.

However, they maxed out their manufacturing of the Telluride for the demand, so they are leaving money on the table but that's not because of the bench or captains chairs. It's because they can't make enough supply to meet the demand overall.

In my opinion, I think Kia thought that the bench was going to be the value differentiator from other mid-sized SUVs. Then they realized that the overall value and all the other benefits outweighed the bench and they could sell it based on other merits so they focused on the more profitable trims and features.

 

[bruesjoh04]

8 seaters manufactured:
LX FWD 9,176
LX AWD 9,320
EX FWD 19,320
EX AWD non-P 14,827
Total 8 seaters: 52,643

7 seaters manufactured:
EX AWD P 15,921 (N included)
S FWD 20,026
S AWD 22,986
SX FWD 11,668
SX AWD 30,748 (N included)
Total 7 seaters: 101,349

Digging further, broken down by transmission the 7 seaters still outnumber the 8 seaters made.

FWD 8 seaters 28,496
AWD 8 seaters 24,147
FWD 7 seaters 31,694
AWD 7 seaters 69,655

I appreciate the work you tried to do here, but it looks like you’re assuming that all FWD EX models are 8 seaters (they weren’t if they had the Premium package), and that no S models are 8 seaters (some 2020 S models were).

 

[2020Telly]

I appreciate the work you tried to do here, but it looks like you’re assuming that all FWD EX models are 8 seaters (they weren’t if they had the Premium package), and that no S models are 8 seaters (some 2020 S models were).

I did not realize that the Premium package on the EX didn't require AWD and you could get it on the FWD. My apologies. Thanks for the correction. I assumed the S models with the bench only option being offered for a couple months was statistically insignificant and failcat did not track those because it was an option and not a package.

The EX FWD non-P (8 seaters) 19,320
The EX FWD Premium (7 seaters) 10,223

Corrections below:

8 seaters manufactured:
LX FWD 9,176
LX AWD 9,320
EX FWD 19,320
EX AWD non-P 14,827
Total 8 seaters: 52,643

7 seaters manufactured:
EX FWD P 10,223
EX AWD P 15,921 (N included)
S FWD 20,026
S AWD 22,986
SX FWD 11,668
SX AWD 30,748 (N included)
Total 7 seaters: 111,572

Digging further, broken down by transmission the 7 seaters still outnumber the 8 seaters made.

FWD 8 seaters 28,496
AWD 8 seaters 24,147
FWD 7 seaters 41,917
AWD 7 seaters 69,655

 

[StephenCantrelle]

gotta leave something for 2022 🤷‍♂️ ..... before you ask I don't know but 2022 information should be around the corner

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[2020Telly]

gotta leave something for 2022 🤷‍♂️ ..... before you ask I don't know but 2022 information should be around the corner

I’m curious how the new logo will show up on the 2022s.

 

[igopr715]

Very early marketing advertised for the US in late 2018 and early 2019 was basically three trims: LX, EX and SX. I think the original plan was LX-8seats, EX-8seats, and SX-7seats. The bench was initially advertised as this very easy access button. By contrast the Palisade is SE, SEL, Limited. SE (8-seats), SEL (7 or 8 seats), Limited (7-seats). Despite the marketing of this easy to use bench button, when I test drove a Telluride with a bench I was thinking it wasn't going to be easy enough for my kids to use and not hurt each other because of how hard it was to press and push forward not to mention with a booster seat installed the seats didn't fold easily enough for me. I personally didn't want a bench and I didn't want to pay for the highest trim, so I was resolved on getting the Palisade SEL with 7 seats or a Sedona minivan, because it appears that captains chairs are a luxury feature on this and most other midsized SUVs. Then around January 2019 Kia announced the S trim and they were going to offer an LX(8), S(7), EX(8), and SX(7). That brought me back to the Telluride S. For a brief period in 2019 they added a bench to the S when there was a captain chair shortage. Then later they added the Premium option to the EX with 7 seats. You can search for "bench" on this forum and find a good number of people wanting one on the SX . . . but I think the vast majority of SXs can sell without the bench and I think there are more people that want the captains chairs than the bench.

I did a quick glance at failcat and all time it looks like 7 seaters outsell the 8 seaters 2:1.

8 seaters manufactured:
LX FWD 9,176
LX AWD 9,320
EX FWD 19,320
EX AWD non-P 14,827
Total 8 seaters: 52,643

7 seaters manufactured:
EX AWD P 15,921 (N included)
S FWD 20,026
S AWD 22,986
SX FWD 11,668
SX AWD 30,748 (N included)
Total 7 seaters: 101,349

Digging further, broken down by transmission the 7 seaters still outnumber the 8 seaters made.

FWD 8 seaters 28,496
AWD 8 seaters 24,147
FWD 7 seaters 31,694
AWD 7 seaters 69,655

I don't think it's as profitable to offer 8 seaters in a mid-sized SUV and I think that's because people looking at the LX see it as a steal for an 8 seater new vehicle with so much space around 32-35k and even the the EX at 38k. But when you start for looking buyers willing to spend close to 50k or more it doesn't look like a value because you can find an entry level large sized SUV new (Yukon, Tahoe, Sequoia, Suburban, and Armada) or slightly used more luxurious model and for the same price you have more cargo space with 8 person seating. The Kia Telluride SUV no longer feels as spacious when compared to those larger truck based SUVs.

Economists have two different theories. Keynes' law is demand creates supply, while Say's law is supply creates demand. Given that the Tellurides have a wait time to order and those that go unsold don't sit on the lot for very long, I think this looks like Keynes law and you could argue the buyers want more 7-seaters. Since the mid-sized SUV market in the US is pretty hot for every manufacturer, I doubt they are pushing cars that people don't want, so it's possible that every manufacturer is leaving some money on the table since there are more people wanting this size vehicle.

However, they maxed out their manufacturing of the Telluride for the demand, so they are leaving money on the table but that's not because of the bench or captains chairs. It's because they can't make enough supply to meet the demand overall.

In my opinion, I think Kia thought that the bench was going to be the value differentiator from other mid-sized SUVs. Then they realized that the overall value and all the other benefits outweighed the bench and they could sell it based on other merits so they focused on the more profitable trims and features.

On the other hand, I need an SUV which may seat 5 people with their luggage. I would buy an SX, but this issue is a deal breaker for me. Of course, I'd buy an EX now, but in a couple of years, when I am on the market, there will be more alternatives with 8 seats..

 

[HillCountry]

On the other hand, I need an SUV which may seat 5 people with their luggage. I would buy an SX, but this issue is a deal breaker for me. Of course, I'd buy an EX now, but in a couple of years, when I am on the market, there will be more alternatives with 8 seats..

We sometimes use the captain’s chairs and one seat in the third row, then cargo for the rest. The kids prefer this setup to 3 abreast on one row. More personal space available.

I agree with you that the market will bring more innovations/options in the coming years.

 

[Tellmeride]

I prefer the bench over the captains chairs. Only once in a blue moon do I actually have people in the 3rd row, so that is 99% of the time lowered. Now if you transport anything such as groceries from the supermarket or Costco, that gap in the middle of the 7 seater would create a problem where the stuff would roll out from the back, no? With the bench, this is not a problem.