I just washed, waxed and vacuumed it but I have no where to go! Stuck at home, sweating the details is all I have left.
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FWD VS AWD
- Thread author fredricschwartz
- Start date
alexdrums
Telluride—Proving u can’t always get what you want
My neighbor just bought a brand new RAV-4 a week ago and it hasn’t left her garage. It’s weird to go from driving all the time to living in a world where you barely need a car.I just washed, waxed and vacuumed it but I have no where to go! Stuck at home, sweating the details is all I have left.
ucinn
FOUNDING MEMBER
Yea, that publication had very many erors in it. It even shows the light bending headlights which are not an option at all
ucinn
FOUNDING MEMBER
Looking further, maybe they are using a 2WD version now. On the Sorento, you could only get it with the AWD and it showed as an option...but the Telluride it shows as standard...but it certainly still couldn't be as effective as the AWD version as it could control drive to all 4 wheels instead of 2.
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Tried a short 100mi trip mostly 55mph country roads in Comfort mode and the trip computer listed 25.9mpg. That’s higher than I’ve seen in ECO.
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Kia got back to me and told me they didn't have the technical background to answer my questions and suggested I call my dealer and ask a techhnician.
This article implies that the implementation for the Torque Vectoring Cornering Control on the Telluride is brake based. The 2020 Kia Telluride Is Set to Win Big in the Three-Row SUV Segment. So I think that means regardless of FWD or AWD, the TVCC works on all 4 wheels by impacting the inner brake to give a little more traction to the outside wheel when cornering.
That's not to say that the AWD doesn't give more traction in snow or heavy rain conditions because of the added rear differential. I think it simply means that the TVCC that is standard on all trims for all four wheels and you don't get anything special in TVCC by adding AWD since that is standard on the brakes of the FWD as well.
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Four Wheel Drive and All-Wheel Drive Vehicles Found To Be Safer Than Two-Wheel Drive Trims Of Same Model
In a new IIHS study, four-wheel-drive vehicles prove to be safer in the real world than the same models equipped with two-wheel drive.
www.torquenews.com
2 to 4 times more likely to die in the fwd vs awd in the same models.
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Once again IIHS has great intensions but could have done more data examination (like the headlight data). They could have broken down the distinction between FWD vs RWD, and AWD vs 4x4. Instead they lump in those vehicles as 2WD and 4WD and I question what the data would look like in the numbers. That report does compare specific 2WD vs 4WD models but it also measures just the driver and not the passengers. Take the data for the 2014-2017 Hyundai Santa Fe for example. That report has three numbers: Santa Fe Sport 2WD (scored 51), Santa Fe 2WD (scored 16), Santa Fe AWD (scored 13). That suggests to me that higher trims (non-Sport) have more safety features and the driver death rate score is a difference of 3 per 1 million, or 0.0003%. Consider also that the IIHS also does crash test reports and groups the Santa Fe scores for years 2013-2016, but the 2017 model is different. There is also no mention of the Santa Fe XL model which is another variant that was offered in AWD or FWD. There was also a Santa Fe Sport AWD version that’s was not reported in the numbers. Lastly there is no mention of the engine. The Santa Fe has a turbo model for each trim and vehicle weight and engine size could be a factor in driver crash survival.Four Wheel Drive and All-Wheel Drive Vehicles Found To Be Safer Than Two-Wheel Drive Trims Of Same Model
In a new IIHS study, four-wheel-drive vehicles prove to be safer in the real world than the same models equipped with two-wheel drive.
2 to 4 times more likely to die in the fwd vs awd in the same models.
From what I can tell on the Telluride most (if not all) of the safety features are present in all trims regardless of transmissions. The one question was torque vectoring cornering control and as far as I can tell the Telluride’s version is brake based and standard.
If you also look at the IIHS crash test rating they use the same Kia Telluride scores for both the Telluride and Palisade for all test reports and have the statement “Rating applies to 2020 models” and don’t run separate crash tests between FWD vs AWD which leads one to believe that they see them equal in safety features even between Kia and Hyundai.
This article suggests FWD are the safest: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/fwd-vs-rwd
I think each car is very different and a new 2020/2021 FWD with safety features might outperform a 2014-2017 AWD. What is somewhat misleading is that AWD is often offered in the more expensive models that have added safety features. That does not appear to be the case in the Telluride. The safety features are standard and all trims have the FWD or AWD option.
It’s also worth noting that the modern active AWD systems stay in FWD mode most of the time and only turn on AWD when needed. Braking distance is often a factor in determining safety scores and and there is no added AWD benefit to braking.
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Feel better? Got it all out? I agree with most of what you said. I would also say that most rental cars are fwd and people driving an unknown car are dangerous. I would also say that anyone that racks a lot of miles per year, which makes you more likely to die, also will get fwd. Younger people have a tendency to be poorer and have a tendency to drive worst then older driver. All of this will led to an increase, but 3 times?
I would also point out that
"The NHTSA gave the 2017 Santa Fe Sport a five-star overall safety score (out of a possible five stars). The IIHS also awarded the crossover the Top Safety Pick designation after it scored Good on all crash tests (Good is the highest possible score) and Superior on the front crash prevention and mitigation test." And only the ultimate added extra features.
2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport Buyer's Guide: Reviews, Specs, Comparisons
The 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport has been updated with a revised exterior and a host of new infotainment and safety tech.
5 star ratings. It has to mean there is something in the real world that can not be tested in a lab. Bad drivers? Maybe, but 3 times?
One problem with your post.
The telluride's AWD system does not stay in FWD mode until needed, it is ACTIVE until it is not needed. For most things under 50 mph, it is fully engaged. For speeds above 50 on straight roads with out turns, it is bias towards front wheel drive, between 90 10 and 65 35 depending on other conditions.
Torgue vectoring is a huge factor when it comes to staying on the road or in the ditch. I don't think it will save that many lives. And should be possible to add to both fwd and awd.
And this has nothing to do with RWD so stop bringing in that strawman.
alexdrums
Telluride—Proving u can’t always get what you want
Weird the article didn’t mention torque steer, which is one of the oldest and most annoying problems with FWD vehicles. In addition, an AWD that is FWD based isn’t going to handle as well in turns as a RWD or a RWD-based 4WD vehicle.
Motortrend said the AWD Telluride is “dominated by understeer”. Understeer adversely effects the handling of FWD-based vehicles. You cannot power out of turns like you can with a RWD-based vehicle...because as the U.S. News article said, “When the front tires lose traction, the nose of the vehicle pushes outside of the turn, not into it.”
I bring it up because many articles and even posts on this forum consider 2WD the same when it comes to RWD and FWD. And a number of competitors to the Telluride that are larger SUVs have RWD implementations.
I’m not suggesting that the Santa Fe is a bad vehicle, quite the opposite. If one trim is so far off maybe that there is more to the numbers than we are led to believe other than the transmission. There are still 4 tires and 4 brakes on the ground. Could it be they were comparing transmissions as if they were identical but had different motors and different safety features? By the fact that they did the study based on 2014-2017 model years but there was a generational change after 2016 maybe the numbers are skewed.
Let’s also be realistic when we read the odds are 3x greater the story is only partially told. We are talking about 1 million accidents per trim with driver fatality over a span of 4 years. There are countless variables to consider not just age of the driver.
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Found this Popular Mechanics article from 2013. In summary, tires do more for inclement weather and better handling. AWD does not improve handling. He describes newer to 2013 AWD systems add improved grip by diverting power to the outside wheel. That is what I think to be brake based TVCC that comes standard on all Tellurides. The statement he made that most resonated to me was “...it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop.”
www.popularmechanics.com
The author takes a much stronger stance than I would because I would probably buy an AWD if I lived in a snowy climate in part because dealer availability but also because I think the stock Michelin’s are better than the stock Pirelli’s and also now AWDs will include better heating in MY2021. But with engine power, tires, suspension, braking and safety features equal, the basic difference is summed up with you get some acceleration benefit in snowy conditions. In return you get more weight, slightly less mpg, and the potential for road noise or more potential transmission problems. I hadn’t thought that off-road rally races usually include AWD. But having built a VW based dune buggy before, Bruce Meyers can tell you AWD isn’t necessary to win a rally race, tires and vehicle weight are bigger factors.
Here’s another PM article that is newer and will make you feel better about the added traction on the AWD Telluride. Disclaimer, they upgraded the OEM tires (~$700) on their EX AWD to Yokohama’s before attempting and finished the trail on the donut!
www.popularmechanics.com
Debunking The Myth of All-Wheel Drive
It sounds like having power to all wheels would help drivers negotiate corners and slippery surfaces. But don't believe the hype about all-wheel drive and handling.
The author takes a much stronger stance than I would because I would probably buy an AWD if I lived in a snowy climate in part because dealer availability but also because I think the stock Michelin’s are better than the stock Pirelli’s and also now AWDs will include better heating in MY2021. But with engine power, tires, suspension, braking and safety features equal, the basic difference is summed up with you get some acceleration benefit in snowy conditions. In return you get more weight, slightly less mpg, and the potential for road noise or more potential transmission problems. I hadn’t thought that off-road rally races usually include AWD. But having built a VW based dune buggy before, Bruce Meyers can tell you AWD isn’t necessary to win a rally race, tires and vehicle weight are bigger factors.
Here’s another PM article that is newer and will make you feel better about the added traction on the AWD Telluride. Disclaimer, they upgraded the OEM tires (~$700) on their EX AWD to Yokohama’s before attempting and finished the trail on the donut!
The Kia Telluride Has Some Serious Off-Road Chops
I didn't expect the Kia to get far on one of the toughest trails in North Carolina. It made it to the top—but not without some drama.
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G
G-327962
22k miles and have a leak. That's a little less than half the tire life. What are you expecting. You can get a leak in a week.
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G-456087
I test drove the FWD and it had an obvious torque steer issue, enough that I just wouldn't buy the FWD.
A large factor in torque steer are the tires. Before jumping to the assumption that the engine is misaligned, you have a bad motor mount, you have a bad suspension or the differential is poorly designed, I would start with the tires. Things like checking the tire pressure, making sure tires are evenly worn and rotated as well as properly aligned. I enjoy the fuel efficiency and have noticed better traction with new tires. I also typically drive my Telluride with passengers, cargo and/or something connected to my hitch so I'm not trying to take corners at a higher speed. MANY people on the forum have reported that the tires are over inflated upon delivery. If you test drove a FWD Telluride with some tires at 40psi, that might be contributing to torque steer.
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G-833329
Because money
