Milano - Trailer Towing - Rear View Mirrors - MISC

[tazzytazzy]

Thanks that’s kind of what I expected. Did you use a 9 hole shank? Do you have clearance issues ? I guess it manages sway alright? Lastly did you get the 550, and which version, Sway Pro? Thanks very much!!

I just got the 550 one with whatever hole shank it came with. Unsure if it's the 7 or 9. Whatever from Amazon.

 

[Stoney]

Thanks very much for sharing.
I was looking at getting one of these but I think your Sherline will be a better and more accurate bet: BetterWeigh Mobile Towing Scale with TowSense Technology (OBD-II)

The Sherline are sold out at the moment so likely alot of people considering these due to all of the small weight trailers out there..

This is the WDH I was looking at: Weight Distribution Hitch | No Sway Trailer Hitch

Its nice and lightweight but not sure how much weight distribution it can do compared to a Blue Ox.

My TT is 3200 dry and 411 tongue weight so im certainly going to need to manage closely. Im looking at fibreglass propane tanks and possibly moving the batteries inside to help things.

I cannot find anything in the owners manual about a WDH - only sway controls are recommended. The WDH and sway controls add a lot of weight; WDH can also damage unibodies. Does anyone have any official word from Kia about using a WDH on the Telly?
As far as what needs to be included in the weight, it's not just the trailer. It's everything in the Telly as well - including passengers and luggage. This is a towing safety group that explains it very nicely. After reading about WDH I need to do more research before I put mine on my Telly again. Disregard that it talks about trucks - all the principles and info apply to SUVs as well.

Understanding Truck Towing Guides - Understanding Truck Towing Guides

 

[2020Telly]

I cannot find anything in the owners manual about a WDH - only sway controls are recommended. The WDH and sway controls add a lot of weight; WDH can also damage unibodies. Does anyone have any official word from Kia about using a WDH on the Telly?
As far as what needs to be included in the weight, it's not just the trailer. It's everything in the Telly as well - including passengers and luggage. This is a towing safety group that explains it very nicely. After reading about WDH I need to do more research before I put mine on my Telly again. Disregard that it talks about trucks - all the principles and info apply to SUVs as well.

Understanding Truck Towing Guides - Understanding Truck Towing Guides

I believe that most of the warnings about using a WDH with a unibody are meant for traditional (smaller) unibody SUVs from the earliest crossover (CUV) days when they took a lighter weight steel riveted and bolted frame from a car and just put an SUV on it for better fuel efficiency. Modern unibody SUV frames on nearly every midsized 7-8 passenger SUV, are built differently with stronger steel or aluminum so it is conceivable that they can tow more than an older or smaller vehicle. But because the frame rails don’t extend the length of the vehicle like a truck, they would have to distribute weight differently. This is all the more reason why Kia should include guidance. That said if you see a WDH lift the weight off the back axle it has to go somewhere, it either goes to the front axle or back to the trailer which are the only other points in the setup touching the ground. Exceeding the gross axle weight rating on the rear is a lot more likely before you hit max vehicle weight rating with passengers and cargo since the front axle has the engine and you don’t carry cargo on the hood. Breaking the rear axle at low speed would still probably be a safer disaster than driving down the road and having the trailer fishtail and flipping the towing vehicle. Too much weight on the rear axel means that the front tires have less grip on the road and the hitch will act as a fulcrum lifting the trailer tires up. That's why you need to distribute the weight off the rear axel which also happens to be where you put most of your passengers and cargo in the Telluride. Sure the WDH weighs some, but the overall benefit outweighs (no pun intended) the addition to total vehicle weight.

I think for a number of years the Dodge Durango held the title as the most towing capacity for the midsized class and it was body on frame truck based SUV. For a few years it switched to unibody to share with the Jeep Cherokee and for 2022 the Durango is going back to body on frame. I wonder if this is because the concerns of a purpose built SUV unibody frame with towing capacity still aren’t clear. But there are still plenty of other midsized SUVs on a unibody frame that compete with the Telluride that offer 5,000lbs of towing. Subaru Ascent, VW Atlas, Toyota Highlander, Infiniti QX60, Volvo XC90, Chevy Traverse, for example all have towing of up to 5,000 and all on unibody frames. The Ford Explorer is unibody and it goes up to 5,600 and the Jeep Cherokee's unibody can go to 7,200. The newly announced 2022 Nissan Pathfinder switched from a body on frame back to a unibody and it has a reported max towing of 6,000 lbs. Another example is the Land Rover LR3/LR4/Discovery, that midsized SUV uses an all aluminum unibody frame and it is supposedly rated up to 8,200lbs. The point is that most manuals don't explain how to get up to 5,000lbs towing on a unibody frame and when you go to a travel trailer dealer they discourage towing on a unibody because that's what was thought for the early days of smaller SUVs. The 1984 Jeep Cherokee was one of the first unibody SUVs (if not the first) and it has a max towing capacity of 2,500lbs. But the vehicles are bigger and stronger than they were 30+ years ago.

With the Telluride I'm more confused about the Electronic Stability Control or Vehicle Stability Management. I'd like to know if you do get a WDH should you get one with or without sway control if the vehicle already comes with anti-roll and anti-sway safety features.

I do agree. I wish Kia would publish something better to explain the towing capacity and best practices. Nissan offers a website and a downloadable PDF towing guide. To date, this is the best guidance I have read:
"Any time you are towing a trailer that has a gross weight, when fully loaded and ready to travel, that is over 50 percent of the vehicle's gross weight, a weight distribution system and trailer brakes are recommended. If your vehicle weighs less than 6,000 lbs, a weight distribution system and trailer brakes should be used when towing a 3,000 lb trailer." (reference) Here's another reference article related to the discussion: https://www.etrailer.com/question-241876.html

 

[Stoney]

I believe that most of the warnings about using a WDH with a unibody are meant for traditional (smaller) unibody SUVs from the earliest crossover (CUV) days when they took a lighter weight steel riveted and bolted frame from a car and just put an SUV on it for better fuel efficiency. Modern unibody SUV frames on nearly every midsized 7-8 passenger SUV, are built differently with stronger steel or aluminum so it is conceivable that they can tow more than an older or smaller vehicle. But because the frame rails don’t extend the length of the vehicle like a truck, they would have to distribute weight differently. This is all the more reason why Kia should include guidance. That said if you see a WDH lift the weight off the back axle it has to go somewhere, it either goes to the front axle or back to the trailer which are the only other points in the setup touching the ground. Exceeding the gross axle weight rating on the rear is a lot more likely before you hit max vehicle weight rating with passengers and cargo since the front axle has the engine and you don’t carry cargo on the hood. Breaking the rear axle at low speed would still probably be a safer disaster than driving down the road and having the trailer fishtail and flipping the towing vehicle. Too much weight on the rear axel means that the front tires have less grip on the road and the hitch will act as a fulcrum lifting the trailer tires up. That's why you need to distribute the weight off the rear axel which also happens to be where you put most of your passengers and cargo in the Telluride. Sure the WDH weighs some, but the overall benefit outweighs (no pun intended) the addition to total vehicle weight.

I think for a number of years the Dodge Durango held the title as the most towing capacity for the midsized class and it was body on frame truck based SUV. For a few years it switched to unibody to share with the Jeep Cherokee and for 2022 the Durango is going back to body on frame. I wonder if this is because the concerns of a purpose built SUV unibody frame with towing capacity still aren’t clear. But there are still plenty of other midsized SUVs on a unibody frame that compete with the Telluride that offer 5,000lbs of towing. Subaru Ascent, VW Atlas, Toyota Highlander, Infiniti QX60, Volvo XC90, Chevy Traverse, for example all have towing of up to 5,000 and all on unibody frames. The Ford Explorer is unibody and it goes up to 5,600 and the Jeep Cherokee's unibody can go to 7,200. The newly announced 2022 Nissan Pathfinder switched from a body on frame back to a unibody and it has a reported max towing of 6,000 lbs. Another example is the Land Rover LR3/LR4/Discovery, that midsized SUV uses an all aluminum unibody frame and it is supposedly rated up to 8,200lbs. The point is that most manuals don't explain how to get up to 5,000lbs towing on a unibody frame and when you go to a travel trailer dealer they discourage towing on a unibody because that's what was thought for the early days of smaller SUVs. The 1984 Jeep Cherokee was one of the first unibody SUVs (if not the first) and it has a max towing capacity of 2,500lbs. But the vehicles are bigger and stronger than they were 30+ years ago.

With the Telluride I'm more confused about the Electronic Stability Control or Vehicle Stability Management. I'd like to know if you do get a WDH should you get one with or without sway control if the vehicle already comes with anti-roll and anti-sway safety features.

I do agree. I wish Kia would publish something better to explain the towing capacity and best practices. Nissan offers a website and a downloadable PDF towing guide. To date, this is the best guidance I have read:
"Any time you are towing a trailer that has a gross weight, when fully loaded and ready to travel, that is over 50 percent of the vehicle's gross weight, a weight distribution system and trailer brakes are recommended. If your vehicle weighs less than 6,000 lbs, a weight distribution system and trailer brakes should be used when towing a 3,000 lb trailer." (reference) Here's another reference article related to the discussion: https://www.etrailer.com/question-241876.html

Don't forget the self leveling shocks in the Telly that supposedly preclude using a WDH. I never got an answer from Kia on that nor on best driving mode for towing. It's almost like they are saying "we said it could tow - you figure it out." I use a WDH and sway control.
The Highlander owner's manual is bizarre. Says to use sway control if towing over 2,000 lbs, vehicle only rated for 5,000 lbs., BUT if you are towing over 5,000 lbs use a WDH! What happened to the 5,000 limit, and why suggest you can go over if you use a WDH? Why not a WDH for under 5,000 lbs.? Go figure.

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[2020Telly]

The Highlander owner's manual is bizarre. Says to use sway control if towing over 2,000 lbs, vehicle only rated for 5,000 lbs., BUT if you are towing over 5,000 lbs use a WDH! What happened to the 5,000 limit, and why suggest you can go over if you use a WDH? Why not a WDH for under 5,000 lbs.? Go figure.

That's just nonsense and makes you question the other safety mistakes in the rest of the Toyota manual. WDH doesn't change the max tongue or max towing capacity, it just makes it safer.

 

[rhouse]

I cannot find anything in the owners manual about a WDH - only sway controls are recommended. The WDH and sway controls add a lot of weight; WDH can also damage unibodies. Does anyone have any official word from Kia about using a WDH on the Telly?
As far as what needs to be included in the weight, it's not just the trailer. It's everything in the Telly as well - including passengers and luggage. This is a towing safety group that explains it very nicely. After reading about WDH I need to do more research before I put mine on my Telly again. Disregard that it talks about trucks - all the principles and info apply to SUVs as well.

Understanding Truck Towing Guides - Understanding Truck Towing Guides

Good luck on your search. I spent a few months researching, reading and asking about Telly capacities. the best I could get from the dealer is that they said "its the owners choice to use WDH or not" - for me, that was enough. I am towing a 3200 TT and started out with an Equalizer E4 WDH (very noisy!!) which the TT dealer incorrectly installed a 1000/10,000lb which was way overkill for the Telly and my TT. I used it for one trip and it worked very well at stopping sway or Yaw but was very bumpy!! I recently had them change it out to the Blue Ox 550 which is sized appropriately for my set up. Ive read that its key to make sure that your WDH is not over or undersized or it wont do its job. That was certainly my experience. I am towing this weekend with the Blue Ox 550 and even going back from the dealer was a lot better. Ultimately you have to satisfy yourself whether or not to use WDH and what you will find is that many people will try to talk you into buying a truck. What I can say is that I towed recently approx 200 miles and 1300ft elevation and I never felt out of control, never felt like the Telly did not have enough power or was in any way unsafe. Now, it may be that the unibody is being torqued a bit but as others have said, this is a larger SUV so it should not destroy it..... fingers crossed. Would be ideal if Kia could give better guidance on this given their claims on towing.
My Telly has the self levelling suspension which I find helps but I think the WDH does more of the work.

 

[Stoney]

Good luck on your search. I spent a few months researching, reading and asking about Telly capacities. the best I could get from the dealer is that they said "its the owners choice to use WDH or not" - for me, that was enough. I am towing a 3200 TT and started out with an Equalizer E4 WDH (very noisy!!) which the TT dealer incorrectly installed a 1000/10,000lb which was way overkill for the Telly and my TT. I used it for one trip and it worked very well at stopping sway or Yaw but was very bumpy!! I recently had them change it out to the Blue Ox 550 which is sized appropriately for my set up. Ive read that its key to make sure that your WDH is not over or undersized or it wont do its job. That was certainly my experience. I am towing this weekend with the Blue Ox 550 and even going back from the dealer was a lot better. Ultimately you have to satisfy yourself whether or not to use WDH and what you will find is that many people will try to talk you into buying a truck. What I can say is that I towed recently approx 200 miles and 1300ft elevation and I never felt out of control, never felt like the Telly did not have enough power or was in any way unsafe. Now, it may be that the unibody is being torqued a bit but as others have said, this is a larger SUV so it should not destroy it..... fingers crossed. Would be ideal if Kia could give better guidance on this given their claims on towing.
My Telly has the self levelling suspension which I find helps but I think the WDH does more of the work.

I have a Husky WDH & sway - bars. Had never heard of the Blue Ox until very recently, but I got what the dealer installed (at the time everyone was raving about Equalizers). Takes a bit of muscle power to get the bars on. The manufacturer was very responsive and sent a chart on where to lube and where not to, which got rid of the banshee shrieking & snapping sounds. (I drove it home on a lovely day when everyone was out and they literally stopped what they were doing because of the loud noises!) Good point on the overkill - good to know I should check to make sure it's not oversized.
My trailer followed like a dream - went up and down some very steep hills and tight corners. I just have to get a jack so I can grease my bearings - Dexter self greasing axles apparently are shipped with very little grease. Then I'll haul my Salem up the hill out of the landing I have it on. A good test for the Telly.
The self leveling suspension was one of the first quandaries I had. Trying to decide the safest and best thing to do. Since the self leveling doesn't activate until you drive, pretty hard to level the Telly and trailer knowing the shocks are going to adjust everything after I worked so hard getting everything level. I'll have to drive through a lot with a store with a reflective glass front. If there's no swaying or dolphining, everything is handling well, and the rig looks level in store window, I'll be good to go.

 

[Stoney]

I'm incorrect, the hitch doesn't count toward tongue weight:

https://www.etrailer.com/question-172089.html - "The weight of anything stowed behind the rear axle would need to be deducted from the vehicle's tongue weight capacity, but the weight of the hitch and the weight distribution system used would not."

https://www.etrailer.com/question-345696.html - "The weight of the weight distribution system does not need to be factored in as additional tongue weight. We've checked with our WD manufacturers and they have told us that the system becomes a part of the trailer hitch essentially so it does not need to be considered."

etrailer often gives incorrect advice so I would not rely on them (and when the bad advice is pointed out, including giving them the manufacturer's instruction, they dig in, rather than change their advice...some of which voids your warranties!). The real answer is that (this is direct from an instructional class by an expert, and is the same advice I have seen on other sites that give instructions on weighing and determining how what is in your tow vehicle reduces what weight you can tow in a travel trailer). A weight distribution hitch and sway bars are included in the hitch weight. The instructions I have for weighing say to put the sway bars in the back of your tow vehicle when weighing the fully loaded tow vehicle. I believe those instructions are also in the apps being talked about on here for weighing your tow vehicle and trailer. Never use etrailer as your only source of information!

Note: the weight of the hitch itself is included in the payload calculations....
...
What you need to takeaway from this article is, everything in a towing system (tow vehicle, hitch components & trailer) has weight ratings...

Any weight you put in or on the tow vehicle reduces the maximum trailer weight rating by that same amount. For the sake of this example, if we add an additional 50-gallon fuel tank in the tow vehicle (300 pounds), three passengers (400 pounds) and the hitch weight (100 pounds) the tow vehicle now weighs 5,865 pounds.
5,065 Curb Weight + 400 pounds passengers + 300 pounds fuel + 100 pounds hitch weight = 5,865 pounds

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