super quick question

[NDBlackEX]

Sorry just figured some of the people who dropped 30-40k on this forum might feel just as annoyed as I did hearing a passing comment of “complete garbage” as a way to describe our purchase.

I dropped more than 40 and I can say that I've used the phrase "complete garbage" to describe certain aspects of this vehicle. Like the infotainment or exterior build quality for example.

Ok, so maybe the phrase complete garbage is overkill but a hot mess isn't.

 

[2020Telly]

I dropped more than 40 and I can say that I've used the phrase "complete garbage" to describe certain aspects of this vehicle. Like the infotainment or exterior build quality for example.

Ok, so maybe the phrase complete garbage is overkill but a hot mess isn't.

Sorry to hear that. I was mainly referring anyone who bought a FWD. Mine was within the first 10,000 made and I found the build quality to be more than acceptable for the price point. I don't have the fancy 10.25" screen so I don't experience any of the infotainment issues others are describing. Apparently my infotainment is now obsolete because they are going with the bigger screen on the 2022s. I have a FWD so I have no risk of the AWD coupler vibration issue from happening. I'm a firm believer that on a mass produced product built on an assembly line, the higher the volume the more important quality control becomes. In my case, for my specs and my purchase, I feel more money = more problems. Buying exactly the features I need has afforded me less problems to worry about. I don't drive off main roads often and I don't typically like to accelerate in bad weather, I do invest a lot of effort in tire maintenance, coming from a minivan I had to have captains chairs, and I do light towing so S FWD is ideal for me for 99.8% of my driving needs. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice drive an EX Prestige FWD with captains chairs, or an SX FWD, but I'd rather have more money in my pocket as the interior gets worn and I reach close to 200k miles on my Telluride years from now. Some decisions that Kia made for the Telluride perplex me, but I recognize is not custom built for me and I didn't buy a Land Rover or G-Wagon.

I think we can agree the Borrego was a hot mess in the US for Kia. I don't think the Telluride is on the same trajectory.

 

[HillCountry]

My bad. I was already irritated when I wrote that. I edited it to remove comment.

I’m on my phone and don’t remember the YouTube channel. It was a Canadian dealer doing a demonstration specifically on the AWD. He stated that all the North American tellurides operated the same just different modes.

I will post when I find it.

You may be thinking of the guy at Brantford KIA in Canada. He posts a lot of content.

 

[2020Telly]

You may be thinking of the guy at Brantford KIA in Canada. He posts a lot of content.

That's probably the video. I'm familiar with the video he shows the dashboard graphics with the bar graphs when starting from stopped every time. He also points out that when he gains speed it switches to FWD at speed.

What is inaccurate is that he says that using AWD all four wheels have added traction. That is not accurate. Tires give you traction, this active all wheel drive at higher speed is reactive not predictive and only manual under 25mph as it adjusts the power as it reacting to conditions. So if your tires aren't getting traction the AWD system senses this it will try to correct the condition by adjusting torque using the other wheels. The engine horsepower and torque are the same regardless of the transmission. With the FWD you don't have added weight of the AWD system, so with the best tires for the conditions you can still do better than average tires on an AWD. This is not a 4x4 system like you might find on a Jeep Grand Cherokee and this is not even the Dynamax system made by Magna Powertrain found on the Sorrento and other Kias. I'm not suggesting is complete garbage, I'm suggesting you may want to be open to the idea that you aren't getting the same AWD performance as other vehicles may have.

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[Tortuga07]

The Telluride doesn’t use the Dynamax system it’s called Active All Wheel Drive. AWD lock is disengaged after you hit 25mph. Yes the system is “on” but it favors FWD. If you put it on rollers to do any testing you have to put all 4 wheels on rollers because the rear wheels could turn a little and if you put it on a lift you need to use the eBrake so it doesn’t roll forward, that doesn’t mean you are getting performance all the time that means the system is looking for a traction problem to respond. This isn’t a 4x4, this is a FWD designed vehicle that has an AWD performance option add on. If you feel you need added acceleration on 2 more wheels at lower speeds and tricky terrain then go for it. But with FWD and good tires it’s a fantastic vehicle with fewer potential problems and less overall maintenance costs. By some people’s definition that makes it a better value. Bashing FWD doesn’t help justify the value of AWD acceleration. The handling, braking and safety features are identical in both transmissions.

Sorry just figured some of the people who dropped 32-43k on this forum might feel just as annoyed as I did hearing a passing comment of “complete garbage” as a way to describe our purchase.

I think its great with the FWD and I think "complete garbage" was a ridiculous comment.

Just to be clear though, you seem to underestimate the advantages of AWD with no sources. I see now that the Dynamax is in the Sorento and Kia uses a different name for the Telluride but it appears to be similar. Do you have any sources for how you seem to think it works? Obviously AWD lock has to disengage over 25mph. Any car that ran with AWD lock on over that speed could suffer serious damage just from making turns. All 4 wheels will still engage at higher speeds though. "lock" just means their all forced to turn at the same rate. Handling and safety are most definitely not the same in both vehicles but that doesn't mean that the FWD isn't exceptional on it's own merit.

Straight from the manual:
AWD AUTO is used when driving on roads in normal conditions, roads in urban areas, and on highways.
All wheels are in operation when a vehicle travels at a constant speed. Required tractions are applied on front and rear wheels vary depending on road and driving conditions, which will be automatically controlled by the computing system.
When the cluster's AWD display mode is selected, the cluster displays the status of how four wheels' traction forces are distributed.

If you've driven one with AWD and watch the cluster you could see how the forces shift from front to back when accelerating and turning. The forces shifting 95% to the front during most driving in ECO mode helps give the vehicle better MPG.

 

[Themlharris]

What have I done

 

[Tortuga07]

What have I done

It wasn't you. The "garbage" comment made by Alexk set it off. Like I said, the FWD is great on its own merit. I'd go as far as to say for most people AWD is really unnecessary. I'd probably stick with that if I didn't live somewhere where it snows 6 months.

 

[Themlharris]

It wasn't you. The "garbage" comment made by Alexk set it off. Like I said, the FWD is great on its own merit. I'd go as far as to say for most people AWD is really unnecessary. I'd probably stick with that if I didn't live somewhere where it snows 6 months.

Yeah, being in Iowa with family in South Dakota gonna go Nightfall and Prestige, so AWD it is. Hopefully, they figured some stuff out for the 2022 model i'm getting.

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[2020Telly]

Not trying to hijack another thread with the AWD vs FWD debate and the under-emphasis on tires for the conditions. You can look at my previous posts for all the references I've made. This thread was meant to ask if the more expensive options were available with FWD. I just hate it when people justify a purchase by trashing the feature they chose not to get without fully understanding what they bought either by reading the manual or looking into it. Think about this . . . if the Magna Powertrain Dynamax system were identical to this new thing they put in the Telluride they why didn't they just put the Dynamax system in? Kia clearly makes more margin on the FWD given that the AWD performance option is only $1,900 or $2,000 up charge and the people who have had problems report costs way higher to replace the components. Maybe this system doesn't have all the same features as the Dynamax system which was outsourced to a powertrain company. We have been sold AWD for years as a safety feature, it's not. It's a performance traction enhancement. I don't have any problem with people who paid for the AWD option. You should be aware that it allows you to go accelerate faster and does not give you any added braking power over FWD with identical tires. That's a safety concern in my book. ALL the same safety features exist on both the FWD and AWD.

 

[Tortuga07]

You should be aware that it allows you to go accelerate faster and does not give you any added braking power over FWD with identical tires. That's a safety concern in my book. ALL the same safety features exist on both the FWD and AWD.

You should be aware that acceleration and velocity are not the same thing. FWD is capable of the same velocity as AWD, so unless you drive with two feet I don't understand why acceleration should affect braking.

 

[2020Telly]

You should be aware that acceleration and velocity are not the same thing. FWD is capable of the same velocity as AWD, so unless you drive with two feet I don't understand why acceleration should affect braking.

Follow me here: I'm in a FWD and you are in an AWD and we both have the same exact tires and wheels. We are side by side in the same conditions and both jam on the gas pedal and you get to 25mph faster than I do . . . doesn't that imply that you will need better braking performance than I do when a deer jumps in the middle of the road if you are able to go faster more quickly than I am? In fact we both have the same braking power and distances and the Telluride uses a brake based Torque Vectoring Cornering Control (TVCC) system for handling that is the same on both the FWD and AWD.

You are correct acceleration is not the same as velocity but acceleration is measured as your rate of velocity over time. In the same amount of time you can get your speed up in an AWD over FWD hence you accelerate faster. Which does mean that FWD is capable of the same speed (velocity) but it takes a little longer to get to that speed (slower acceleration). Human reaction time is arguably harder at faster speeds and safety often involves slowing down or stopping (braking power). I'm not doing donuts in snow or drag racing in my Telluride like I might have when I was younger. So at <25mph someone accelerating in an AWD might have a tougher time slowing down unless they use common sense and are aware that AWD does not improve braking.

 

[Tortuga07]

Follow me here: I'm in a FWD and you are in an AWD and we both have the same exact tires and wheels. We are side by side in the same conditions and both jam on the gas pedal and you get to 25mph faster than I do . . . doesn't that imply that you will need better braking performance than I do when a deer jumps in the middle of the road if you are able to go faster more quickly than I am? In fact we both have the same braking power and distances and the Telluride uses a brake based Torque Vectoring Cornering Control (TVCC) system for handling that is the same on both the FWD and AWD.

You are correct acceleration is not the same as velocity but acceleration is measured as your rate of velocity over time. In the same amount of time you can get your speed up in an AWD over FWD hence you accelerate faster. Which does mean that FWD is capable of the same speed (velocity) but it takes a little longer to get to that speed (slower acceleration). Human reaction time is arguably harder at faster speeds and safety often involves slowing down or stopping (braking power). I'm not doing donuts in snow or drag racing in my Telluride like I might have when I was younger. So at <25mph someone accelerating in an AWD might have a tougher time slowing down unless they use common sense and are aware that AWD does not improve braking.

I don't follow how that's at all relevant. Yes traveling at 23 mph is slightly safer than traveling at 25 mph. I don't slam down the accelerator like I'm drag racing so It's unlikely to matter. Most time spent driving is not spent accelerating from a stop anyways. If you and I both drove from point A to point B we would average about the same velocity. Either vehicle could always accelerate slower as conditions require.

Acceleration is not rate of velocity over time. That would be average velocity. Acceleration is rate of change of velocity over time.

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[2020Telly]

I don't follow how that's at all relevant. Yes traveling at 23 mph is slightly safer than traveling at 25 mph. I don't slam down the accelerator like I'm drag racing so It's unlikely to matter. Most time spent driving is not spent accelerating from a stop anyways. If you and I both drove from point A to point B we would average about the same velocity. Either vehicle could always accelerate slower as conditions require.

Acceleration is not rate of velocity over time. That would be average velocity. Acceleration is rate of change of velocity over time.

I don't think we are on the same page. In less time you will be going faster so you will have less time to react than I need to because I can't get going as quickly as you. Yes, either vehicle can always accelerate slower if the driver uses common sense. But Subaru and others have been blindly convincing unknowing buyers for years that AWD is safer and their commercials showed a car avoiding an accident with brake lights. I'm just suggesting that FWD is perfectly safe option if you use common sense. AWD gives you added performance if you want it, and with common sense is equally as safe. But it doesn't necessarily mean that if you don't have AWD you have a horrible and unsafe vehicle.

Yes, rate of change. My point is that AWD has greater initial acceleration but the same braking distance as FWD. So there could be a situation where you accelerate too quickly in an AWD for the conditions where it would not be possible in a FWD. I see AWD vehicles off the side of the road all the time in bad weather conditions. It's not the car, it's the driver thinking they were invincible and when they pushed the brake they slide off the road because they got going too fast. But if you had better tires on a FWD than an AWD you would be able brake in a shorter distance in the FWD over the AWD.

 

[Tortuga07]

So there could be a situation where you accelerate too quickly in an AWD for the conditions where it would not be possible in a FWD. I see AWD vehicles off the side of the road all the time in bad weather conditions.

It would not be possible to accelerate too quickly in a FWD? The acceleration argument holds no water because I can accelerate just as slowly with AWD. If we're going to make up hypotheticals then maybe you should have AWD just in case you ever get stuck on snow covered train tracks and the front wheels don't have traction. Obviously that's a ridiculous hypothetical but I figured fight fire with fire.

You can't see both sides because you're so entrenched in your anti-AWD campaign. I've already said that the FWD are great and AWD wouldn't matter for most people. We'll have to agree to disagree on the slight safety advantages of one over the other.

Yes people overestimate the capabilities of their vehicles but that's regardless of what they're driving.

 

[2020Telly]

It would not be possible to accelerate too quickly in a FWD? The acceleration argument holds no water because I can accelerate just as slowly with AWD. If we're going to make up hypotheticals then maybe you should have AWD just in case you ever get stuck on snow covered train tracks and the front wheels don't have traction. Obviously that's a ridiculous hypothetical but I figured fight fire with fire.

You can't see both sides because you're so entrenched in your anti-AWD campaign. I've already said that the FWD are great and AWD wouldn't matter for most people. We'll have to agree to disagree on the slight safety advantages of one over the other.

Yes people overestimate the capabilities of their vehicles but that's regardless of what they're driving.

View attachment 19087
View attachment 19086

You are making my point, people often drive with no common sense or being overly confident in their vehicle's capabilities.

I'm not anti-AWD. I'm anti-marketing AWD as a safety feature and making it seem that FWD is not safe. Tires and common sense matter more than the transmission. Look for example on the Kia.com website for the Telluride, AWD is not listed under safety, it's a performance feature. I just hate seeing people blindly being sucked into the sales pitch that they need AWD for safety and then drive other people off the road because they can't handle what they bought or they went cheap on tires.

Going back to the original topic of this thread, it use to be that in a 4x4 driving in 4 wheel drive in normal driving conditions when it wasn't needed could potentially damage the drivetrain. If the FWD biased AWD on the Telluride is always turning all four wheels, I wonder if the noise and potential vibration issues are a higher risk because that driveshaft and coupling are always spinning.

 

[Tortuga07]

You are making my point, people often drive with no common sense or being overly confident in their vehicle's capabilities.

I'm not anti-AWD. I'm anti-marketing AWD as a safety feature and making it seem that FWD is not safe. Tires and common sense matter more than the transmission. Look for example on the Kia.com website for the Telluride, AWD is not listed under safety, it's a performance feature. I just hate seeing people blindly being sucked into the sales pitch that they need AWD for safety and then drive other people off the road because they can't handle what they bought or they went cheap on tires.

Do you have numbers to back up the idea that AWD is less safe?

Four Wheel Drive and All-Wheel Drive Vehicles Found To Be Safer Than Two-Wheel Drive Trims Of Same Model

In a new IIHS study, four-wheel-drive vehicles prove to be safer in the real world than the same models equipped with two-wheel drive.

www.torquenews.com

Driver death rates remain high among small cars

Among late-model vehicles, small cars and minicars remain the most dangerous, according to new driver death rates calculated by IIHS. Nearly half of the 20 models with the lowest death rates are luxury SUVs.

www.iihs.org

DRIVER DEATH RATES BY VEHICLE STYLE AND SIZE

Registered vehicle years vs. mileage
2017 and equivalent earlier models, 2015-18

	Deaths per million registration years	Deaths per 10 billion miles	Average annual mileage
SUVs AVG	25	19	13,589
4-wheel drive
Small	24	19	12,684
Midsize	21	15	13,573
Large	22	15	15,130
Very large	7	4	17,969
2-wheel drive
Small	42	31	13,774
Midsize	34	24	14,429
Large	26	17	15,510
Very large	30	17	18,465
4-wheel drive luxury
Small	25	23	10,629
Midsize	9	7	11,827
Large	5	4	12,476
Very large	19	13	15,432
2-wheel drive luxury
Small	44	40	11,121
Midsize	11	9	12,056
Large	26	18	14,841

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[2020Telly]

That IIHS study is so flawed, so many things are not accounted for. Consider that its funded by insurance companies who may not be impartial.

What options are worth getting?

In a round about way, AWD could be considered a safety feature. Let's say you drive some remote areas where traction is limited, possibly snowy, icey, with hills, drifting snow, ect... or I suppose muddy or sandy... In these traction limited situations, you're more likely to get stuck...

tellurideforum.org

FWD VS AWD

Don’t sweat the details. Try and enjoy your ride! I just washed, waxed and vacuumed it but I have no where to go! Stuck at home, sweating the details is all I have left. :)

tellurideforum.org

The study doesn't account for newer cars with more safety tech, and doesn't consider location nor weather. It also lumps in car trims with different engines only separating them by their transmission.

Look at the numbers and try to explain why even though the Kia Sorrento and the Hyundai Santa Fe are so similar that they sometimes share the same crash data according to the IIHS (like the Telluride and Palisade did early on), but Kia Sorrento 4WD an overall death rate of 12, but the Kia Sorrento 2WD a score of 32. By comparison, the Hyundai Santa Fe 2WD a 16, but the Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 4WD a 39.

So similar vehicles but the Sorento 4WD is safer than the 2WD, but the Santa Fe 2WD is safer than the 4WD? There is more to the numbers than just transmission on this data for older cars. On cars made in 2019+ safety features are becoming standard where in the past you paid more for a higher trim that came with AWD and that included safety features because they were trying to sell you on the idea that 4WD is safer.

 

[Themlharris]

I've made a huge mistake making this thread

 

[2020Telly]

I've made a huge mistake making this thread

Unwatching so I don't get anyone upset.

 

[22Telly]

I've made a huge mistake making this thread

It's all your fault, we should summon you to the arena.