Unbelievable

[Pdespop]

SoCal is outta control!!!

 

[Telluride35]

Someone will alway be a lay down and walk away paying the asking price with a big smile on their face.

 

[whatthewhat]

People are running to these dealers to buy. Three of the top 10 dealers for Tellurides are in SoCal. We ended up ordering our from out of state because everyone here was asking for markups and cars were flying off the lot.

 

[Pdespop]

People are running to these dealers to buy. Three of the top 10 dealers for Tellurides are in SoCal. We ended up ordering our from out of state because everyone here was asking for markups and cars were flying off the lot.

That’s more than I gave for my wife’s EX a couple months ago down in Chula Vista!

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[Tellthemride]

That’s just MSRP with the “Take my money” package added. Kia dealerships have been offering this package since 2019. Nothing new to see here.

 

[arattle]

SoCal is outta control!!!View attachment 24658

I like that the picture is of SX Nightfall. Hopefully the buyer likes S silver wheels and polished chrome trim.

 

[PittPa]

I like that the picture is of SX Nightfall. Hopefully the buyer likes S silver wheels and polished chrome trim.

Apparently since many are willing to buy this car immediately, pictures of the actual vehicle are meaningless. I like my car but there is no way I would pay over the msrp thats going on. Don't you think KIA is taking a look at all this and thinking that the car was severely underpriced compared to the competition. They could increase the 2023 $5k and no one would blink.

 

[Pdespop]

I like that the picture is of SX Nightfall. Hopefully the buyer likes S silver wheels and polished chrome trim.

They sell so fast around here they don’t have time to post pictures. When we got ours in November, our salesmen moved it to the back so nobody would come in and swoop it. At least 6 families came through that day looking for it.

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[byscott]

Don't you think KIA is taking a look at all this and thinking that the car was severely underpriced compared to the competition. They could increase the 2023 $5k and no one would blink.

^^^ This. ^^^

I paid a couple thousand over MSRP because the local dealer had on his lot exactly the car I wanted — color, options, everything. I paid the upcharge to have the car in four days instead of four months. That said, for me it was either/or — I was willing to pay the uplift to have the car immediately, or I was willing to order one at MSRP. I was not willing to pay an upcharge and wait for months. But I didn’t really need a new car, so I had the option of waiting a year or two to see if market conditions might change.

Presumably, the craziness in the current market is due to demand outstripping supply. On the demand side, I think that’s at least partially a reflection of the Telluride’s value proposition. What drew me to the Telluride in the first place is that similarly equipped SUVs were typically $10k more. As PittPa points out, Kia could raise the 2023 MSRP significantly and still be priced considerably below the competition.

As consumers, we have an underlying sense of value that guides our decision-making. And it’s generally built around what we think something is worth and what we’re willing to pay for it. MSRP certainly colors our perception of worth, but the two aren’t necessarily synonymous.

One example of this that I find really interesting is StubHub. What happened when these types of online nationwide ticket brokers came into existence was that — for the first time — there was a legitimate, readily accessible secondary market for tickets. And the result was that the face value of a ticket — the ticket’s MSRP — became pretty much meaningless. The StubHub price of a ticket fluctuates based on its actual value in a competitive marketplace, i.e. how much someone is willing to pay for it.

Some of the “StubHub Effect” was pronounced. In particular, sports teams that had always priced their tickets arbitrarily were stunned to find out just how much their fans would actually pay for them. And they adjusted the face value — the MSRP — accordingly. Those of you who have been to a game — or God Forbid, are season ticket holders — have seen what has happened to ticket prices.

What’s my point? More or less, it’s that MSRP is a fiction, and maybe not a very useful one at that. If there were no MSRP for the Telluride, how would we determine its value, and what would we be willing to pay for one?

 

[PittPa]

Nice points and I agree. I am not your "usual" Telluride buyer on this forum. I am generally always looking for the best deal so I frequently buy preowned or used back when it actually made sense. I think the only "new" car I bought over the last 10 years was actually a lease for a new to order Audi A6. Since my car ownership traditionally has never been longer than 3 years, (I do own a classic Porsche 911 for over 20 years), I'm looking to get into a car and out of it as painlessly as possible. Buy a new car and sell it in 2-3 years, bad idea. Lease another car? It use to be an option but I could never get over the car feeling like it's a rental and the miles per year on the lease as a negative factor. It always felt like the last 6 months of having a lease was just waiting for it to end. Which leads me to the Telly. I bought a used Moss Green 2020 SXP with 7K miles sitting on a Jeep dealer's lot that the previous owner ordered and didn't like how it drove "like a car". It was sitting there for a few weeks and they were knocking thousands off it. This was 12/2020. I traded in my 2017 BMW 340I sedan that couldn't handle anything more than 3 passengers on a trip to Costco. A bigger car was in need. The intrigue and reviews brought me to the Telly. There is no way I would order one and weight months nor pay anything close to a MSRP since this was used. Man, I guess timing was everything. Fast forward to now and unfortunately if you can look at other car markets are almost as bad as Kia's situation. I looked at a Volvo XC40 for my daughter and they had zero cars on the lot and all cars coming in until May are taken. So rounding back to the current market, yeah, MSRP currently are not an accurate bearing on a cars value. But man, it stinks for the consumer right now.

 

[Navin_Johnson]

^^^ This. ^^^

I paid a couple thousand over MSRP because the local dealer had on his lot exactly the car I wanted — color, options, everything. I paid the upcharge to have the car in four days instead of four months. That said, for me it was either/or — I was willing to pay the uplift to have the car immediately, or I was willing to order one at MSRP. I was not willing to pay an upcharge and wait for months. But I didn’t really need a new car, so I had the option of waiting a year or two to see if market conditions might change.

Presumably, the craziness in the current market is due to demand outstripping supply. On the demand side, I think that’s at least partially a reflection of the Telluride’s value proposition. What drew me to the Telluride in the first place is that similarly equipped SUVs were typically $10k more. As PittPa points out, Kia could raise the 2023 MSRP significantly and still be priced considerably below the competition.

As consumers, we have an underlying sense of value that guides our decision-making. And it’s generally built around what we think something is worth and what we’re willing to pay for it. MSRP certainly colors our perception of worth, but the two aren’t necessarily synonymous.

One example of this that I find really interesting is StubHub. What happened when these types of online nationwide ticket brokers came into existence was that — for the first time — there was a legitimate, readily accessible secondary market for tickets. And the result was that the face value of a ticket — the ticket’s MSRP — became pretty much meaningless. The StubHub price of a ticket fluctuates based on its actual value in a competitive marketplace, i.e. how much someone is willing to pay for it.

Some of the “StubHub Effect” was pronounced. In particular, sports teams that had always priced their tickets arbitrarily were stunned to find out just how much their fans would actually pay for them. And they adjusted the face value — the MSRP — accordingly. Those of you who have been to a game — or God Forbid, are season ticket holders — have seen what has happened to ticket prices.

What’s my point? More or less, it’s that MSRP is a fiction, and maybe not a very useful one at that. If there were no MSRP for the Telluride, how would we determine its value, and what would we be willing to pay for one?

Great writeup! Back in the 80's and 90's, I used to be able to drive into Chicago, walk up to the ticket office at the old Chicago Stadium, and later, the new United Center, and buy a ticket on the spot for a Black Hawk game. I'd go to 5 - 7 games a season doing this. There was no market for scalpers back them, because the ticket office always had plenty of available seats. The only games would sell out is when Detroit was in town because so many Red Wing fans drove over from Michigan. Starting in 2008, they sold out 535 games in a row, creating a secondary market that makes it impossible to be able to afford going to a game. The prices continued to go so high, with no hope of coming back down, I know I'll never go to another game. Because of this, I've lost interest, and don't even bother watching them on TV anymore.
With what's going on in the car industry now, I'm hoping that people don' t get so discouraged with what is going on that they just shrug their shoulders, and decide to just drive what they have already because it is so hard and frustrating buying cars now, especially since the chip shortage. Things are going to just get worse when the government really starts forcing EVs down our throats because they have a hard deadline to meet. Talk about confusing times

 

[arattle]

Great writeup! Back in the 80's and 90's, I used to be able to drive into Chicago, walk up to the ticket office at the old Chicago Stadium, and later, the new United Center, and buy a ticket on the spot for a Black Hawk game. I'd go to 5 - 7 games a season doing this. There was no market for scalpers back them, because the ticket office always had plenty of available seats. The only games would sell out is when Detroit was in town because so many Red Wing fans drove over from Michigan. Starting in 2008, they sold out 535 games in a row, creating a secondary market that makes it impossible to be able to afford going to a game. The prices continued to go so high, with no hope of coming back down, I know I'll never go to another game. Because of this, I've lost interest, and don't even bother watching them on TV anymore.
With what's going on in the car industry now, I'm hoping that people don' t get so discouraged with what is going on that they just shrug their shoulders, and decide to just drive what they have already because it is so hard and frustrating buying cars now, especially since the chip shortage. Things are going to just get worse when the government really starts forcing EVs down our throats because they have a hard deadline to meet. Talk about confusing times

You're comparing two completely different things. Transportation is essential, and most people in this country have a car. Most people have also never bought a new car in their life, they live entirely on the used market. This chip shortage is affecting very few folks who are both in immediate need of a car and insist on a new car. Yes, used market is more expensive - but still cheaper than new. Prices are bound to come down in a year or two, so buying a car now is almost always a choice. Let's face it, none of us have to have a Telluride right this moment...and if we do, it's either going to cost us some money or time.

If, like you say, more people decide to keep driving what they have already, the market will stabilize much quicker. As demand drops, prices will normalize. Supply will inevitably pick up as soon as possible, since manufacturers have a massive interest in keeping up their sales volume. Pretty soon dealer lots will be over full with new vehicles again.

A hockey game, on the other hand, is a completely discretionary expense and has no bearing on anyone's life at all. While I agree that the secondary market ruined sports (and concerts), it is not a necessity.

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[Buckeyes1969]

What happens when the used car market stabilizes and all these people that bought Tellurides at up to $15,000 over MSRP? Going to be some upset people by how much upside down they are!

 

[Javi]

I paid an extra $3,000 for my SX, the mark-up included two things that did not come with the car, full carpeting and mud guards, some door edge and door cups guards, maintenance included for one year and some other cosmetic frilly things of dubious value.

I estimate the value of the things included in the mark-up at about $400. The customer service was and is excellent so far, I ordered a car exactly as I wanted and took possession of it 7 weeks later.

I had good reasons why waiting 4 months would not work for me, I am not happy with the mark-up but I am not crying about it.

 

[2020Telly]

I think if you are going to compare car buying patterns to supply/demand for common everyday items, I would say look at a water bottle purchase instead of a sporting event.

I know the price of a car is very different from the price of bottled water, but hear me out on the supply and demand comparison.

Water is a basic necessity in the same way that some people feel personal transportation and the expenses related to it are a necessity. Some people are willing to spend discretionary and non-discretionary expenses on either depending on their location and their needs at the time of purchase. If you wait and time your purchase with a sale you can purchase a bottle from a case of purified water from a grocery store or retailer for a quarter per bottle. However, if you are at a sporting event, amusement park, or a bar that same bottle may cost you $5. If you are thirsty enough and there are no other options, you would be less reluctant to overpay for the bottle of water because there are limited options. You can extend the analogy even further to consider that water can be consumed as filtered tap from home in a reusable container, or purchased with many options from purified to spring water, some have flavors or added carbonation, etc. Regardless, some buyers are willing to spend more if it's what they want and especially when the supply is low. When a natural disaster happens the fear of running out of drinking water is so high that it's often the first thing to go off the shelves.

If a buyer needs a car and is determined to get the features they feel are needed and wanted, they are going to be willing to pay more because the options are limited all around and the fear of limited supply for an indefinite future doesn't sound good to a buyer who is not willing to compromise in buying a vehicle that would not satisfy them.

I'm not blaming Kia for setting a competitively low MSRP in pre-pandemic 2019 on a brand new vehicle. The market and supply/demand is dictating how much above MSRP vehicles sell for. At this point MSRP is a number that tells us how much a dealer in certain areas of the country may be willing to drop down close to on a new vehicle. Below MSRP and above invoice is a dream that can not be achieved at this time. Local markets and buyers are dictating how high the advertised price is for used and new vehicles.

 

[Tellmeride]

I do own a classic Porsche 911 for over 20 years

I offer to relief you from this money pit... $2,500 cash money, right now.

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[PittPa]

I offer to relief you from this money pit... $2,500 cash money, right now.

HAha. I've owned if over 20 years and it is by far my least costly vehicle to own. Oil changes and inspection is all it takes. It a 1989 so air cooled. It's the antithesis of a 2022 car. No power steering, antilock brakes, and any of that stuff. And I love it.

 

[byscott]

I think if you are going to compare car buying patterns to supply/demand for common everyday items, I would say look at a water bottle purchase instead of a sporting event.

(snip)

I guess I began this whole car buying/sporting event discussion. My only intent was to introduce the idea of MSRP as a flawed convention, not to suggest any equivalency of buying patterns between cars, sporting events, water bottles, or any other goods or services.

@PittPa: Last year of the Carrera? Classic look with the Guards Red, lower body stripe, and Fuchs wheels! FWIW, I have a 996.1 cabriolet … even with antilock brakes and power steering, it’s still pretty far away from a “modern” car. The 996 — and even the 993 — is more of a tourer than an earlier version like yours, but easily pegs the needle on the Silly-Grins-per-mile meter. My current plan is to drive it until I’m 80, then give it to whichever one the nieces or nephews who knows how to drive a stick <g>.

 

[BasilFawlty]

Apparently since many are willing to buy this car immediately, pictures of the actual vehicle are meaningless. I like my car but there is no way I would pay over the msrp thats going on. Don't you think KIA is taking a look at all this and thinking that the car was severely underpriced compared to the competition. They could increase the 2023 $5k and no one would blink.

Our local dealers at the time l bought mine were asking $5k over MSRP. I ended up ordering from Texas dealer who was willing to order mine at MSRP (actually a little less than MSRP because of KIA’s Veterans discount). They even tossed in an OEM set of all weather floor mats at no charge.

 

[HairyMilkshakes]

You can run a good business buying @ MSRP and undercutting these dealers by selling to Shift here.