Safety Feature and Reliability Discussion

[Kamauxx]

My 2016 Subaru Legacy was one of the first Subarus to have all of the new fancy safety systems.

Fixed.

 

[Bruce_wayne8887]

Fixed.

Hey at the time they were one of the first to have emergency breaking lane departure and lane assist. Eyesight was pretty advanced at the time lol I had to pay like 1800 for that package it wasnt standard then and only top trims on other brands had it available.

 

[Kamauxx]

Hey at the time they were one of the first to have emergency breaking lane departure and lane assist. Eyesight was pretty advanced at the time lol I had to pay like 1800 for that package it wasnt standard then and only top trims on other brands had it available.

On a whole advance safety features have been around for decades. They're just now becoming more popular.

The first Kia I drove with advanced safety tech was in 2013 on a 2014 Cadenza. I'm sure Kia/Hyundai were using the various systems much earlier in the S. Korean market.

 

[syadasti]

On a whole advance safety features have been around for decades. They're just now becoming more popular.

The first Kia I drove with advanced safety tech was in 2013 on a 2014 Cadenza. I'm sure Kia/Hyundai were using the various systems much earlier in the S. Korean market.

Hyundai/Kia historically don’t use many in-house systems just like they use Dynamax AWD from a supplier - Magna.

Eyesight was in house and premiered earlier than Kia, 2012:

Subaru introduces EyeSight system for Outback and Legacy

Subaru introduces EyeSight system for Outback and Legacy

autoweek.com

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[ucinn]

Don’t say that on KIA forum lol
I mean I know a lot of ppl here love their KIAs but let’s be real they still have long ways to be compared to others. Couple tech add one still can’t replace years and years of presence..

most people don't realize that Kia has been building some of the best and most reliable vehicles on the market. They have been #1 for 4 years running in JD Powers initial quality index and 3rd in long term reliability. They have a perception problem from the 90's and early 2000'2 when they were pushing out those shit boxes. Then they decided maybe we should go for quality instead and have been increasingly better every year since. People just don't keep up is the problem.

KIA MOTORS IS THE HIGHEST RANKED MASS MARKET BRAND IN J.D. POWER’S INITIAL QUALITY STUDY FOR THE FOURTH CONSECUTIVE YEAR

For the fourth consecutive year, Kia was recognized as the number one non-premium brand by J.D. Power in the 2018 Initial Quality Study (IQS), with a reported 72 problems per 100 vehicles. Kia maintained its leadership position with segment-leading performances from the Sorento (Midsize SUV)...

www.kiamedia.com

 

[Kamauxx]

Hyundai/Kia historically don’t use many in-house systems just like they use Dynamax AWD from a supplier - Magna.

Eyesight was in house and premiered earlier than Kia, 2012:

Subaru introduces EyeSight system for Outback and Legacy

Subaru introduces EyeSight system for Outback and Legacy

autoweek.com

Point is, this isn't 2016 tech. It's decades old.

 

[Bruce_wayne8887]

most people don't realize that Kia has been building some of the best and most reliable vehicles on the market. They have been #1 for 4 years running in JD Powers initial quality index and 3rd in long term reliability. They have a perception problem from the 90's and early 2000'2 when they were pushing out those shit boxes. Then they decided maybe we should go for quality instead and have been increasingly better every year since. People just don't keep up is the problem.

KIA MOTORS IS THE HIGHEST RANKED MASS MARKET BRAND IN J.D. POWER’S INITIAL QUALITY STUDY FOR THE FOURTH CONSECUTIVE YEAR

For the fourth consecutive year, Kia was recognized as the number one non-premium brand by J.D. Power in the 2018 Initial Quality Study (IQS), with a reported 72 problems per 100 vehicles. Kia maintained its leadership position with segment-leading performances from the Sorento (Midsize SUV)...

www.kiamedia.com

I'm not docking Kia's quality at all but J.D. Power Awards are a joke. Nothing but Paid Advertisements. Just like how Chevy's embarrassing add saying they were better than Toyota and Honda and they had to pull it.

Chevy Pulls Commercial Claiming Superior Reliability

After other automakers and consumer groups called the ad misleading, Chevrolet has stopped running it. But who's right?

www.caranddriver.com

Kia and Hyundai are both much higher quality and more reliable now than ever but J.D. Powers awards should never be taken seriously.

 

[ucinn]

We'll have to disagree on that as their surveys are based on actual buyers results. now CR's, yes I could see that, they are a bought and paid for.

Chevy had to pull their adds because they used their own surveys for their claims of being better than Honda and Toyota. Chevy's claims never stated anything about JD Powers in them, but it worked as many believe that's what they were talking about.

______________________________

 

[syadasti]

most people don't realize that Kia has been building some of the best and most reliable vehicles on the market. They have been #1 for 4 years running in JD Powers initial quality index and 3rd in long term reliability. They have a perception problem from the 90's and early 2000'2 when they were pushing out those shit boxes. Then they decided maybe we should go for quality instead and have been increasingly better every year since. People just don't keep up is the problem.

KIA MOTORS IS THE HIGHEST RANKED MASS MARKET BRAND IN J.D. POWER’S INITIAL QUALITY STUDY FOR THE FOURTH CONSECUTIVE YEAR

For the fourth consecutive year, Kia was recognized as the number one non-premium brand by J.D. Power in the 2018 Initial Quality Study (IQS), with a reported 72 problems per 100 vehicles. Kia maintained its leadership position with segment-leading performances from the Sorento (Midsize SUV)...

www.kiamedia.com

JD Powers is a paid industry award for marketing cars, it’s not independent or based solely on actual owners compared to Consumer Reports which is unpaid and Kia dropped 6 places this year.

With either reliablity rating 3 years is far shorter than how long car owners keep their cars so that’s not long term reliability in the context of actual use long term ownership.

Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About The JD Power Awards - Jalopnik

People who know him call him Dave. You probably know him by the eponymously-named company, J.D. Power and Associates, which I used to think was fake. It is not. It is extremely real and, I have learned, one of the most hilarious threads running through the multi-trillion-dollar auto industry.

jalopnik.com

Lots of these awards are still have less relevance since they typically go by quantity of issues rather than severity. A transmission problem is a bigger deal but there’s no weighting for comparison to minor problems.

 

[Bruce_wayne8887]

We'll have to disagree on that as their surveys are based on actual buyers results. now CR's, yes I could see that, they are a bought and paid for.

Chevy had to pull their adds because they used their own surveys for their claims of being better than Honda and Toyota. Chevy's claims never stated anything about JD Powers in them, but it worked as many believe that's what they were talking about.

I'm mostly referring to the JD Power Initial Quality Award. But everyone has their own opinion. You can say CR's results are not good either but they are also Based on Actual Buyers Results and experiences. I find the only real way of knowing if a vehicle is reliable is real owners reviews. Which in large quantities is hard to come by. Something I noticed very quickly looking in to the VW Atlas was there seemed to be quality issues and problems all over the place.

 

[ucinn]

You're kidding right? CR get's cars (they say they pay for them) and use their own people to judge them (no way they are bought off)...lol I used to get CR until I found out how their judgements were way off including reliability.

Here's an article showing what Chevy used to make their claims.. once again, they used their own survey, not JD Powers

Chevy Pulls Commercial Claiming Superior Reliability

After other automakers and consumer groups called the ad misleading, Chevrolet has stopped running it. But who's right?

www.caranddriver.com

 

[syadasti]

Point is, this isn't 2016 tech. It's decades old.

These safety systems are not decades old. Imaging, laser, and radar based safety systems were too expensive for mainstream consumer use until recently. Imaging based systems are less than a decade old because of the required computer processing.

Hyundai’s radar based ACC didn’t premiere in Korea until 2009 with radar on the Equus just under 10 years ago.

You’d be correct if you meant adaptive cruise control are the only systems available since the 90s via laser and later radar in very limited use until this decade.

Emergency braking didn’t premiere until the early 2000s.

______________________________

 

[syadasti]

You're kidding right? CR get's cars (they say they pay for them) and use their own people to judge them (no way they are bought off)...lol I used to get CR until I found out how their judgements were way off including reliability.

Here's an article showing what Chevy used to make their claims.. once again, they used their own survey, not JD Powers

Chevy Pulls Commercial Claiming Superior Reliability

After other automakers and consumer groups called the ad misleading, Chevrolet has stopped running it. But who's right?

www.caranddriver.com

The reliability is based on an unpaid subscriber survey. It’s not a simple random survey, but it’s solely end users (no dealerships) so it’s more relevant than a paid industry award like JD and it does weight problems.

The only joke is if you’re claiming a paid industry award likely JD powers is more accurate:

Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports answers common car reliability survey questions to explain the thought process and science behind the ratings.

www.consumerreports.org

“
How Does CR Get Its Reliability Information?
Where Is the Data From?
Consumer Reports obtains its reliability data from an Auto Questionnaire that is sent to members of CR.org and Consumer Reports magazine. In all, we received responses on over 470,000 vehicles in our latest survey, detailing 2000 to 2018, and some early introduced 2019 models.

How Is the survey conducted?
Consumer Reports’ Survey Department conducts the survey each year. In the survey, we ask members to note any problems with their cars that occurred in the past 12 months. They are asked to identify problems that they considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime). We ask them to include problems covered by warranty, but not the ones resulting from accident damage or due solely to recall. Respondents check off problems from a list of trouble areas, ranging from the engine and transmission to climate system, brakes, electrical system, and power accessories. They also tell us specifically what their experiences were to help us understand precisely what problems they are having. (See the full list of trouble spots below.)

How current is the data?
All of the data was collected in the 2018 calendar year. Respondents are asked about problems their vehicle experienced within the last 12 months.”

 

[Karam.31]

US News... are they reliable? Or same deal at CR and JD Power?

 

[Bruce_wayne8887]

US News... are they reliable? Or same deal at CR and JD Power?

I've found CR to be the most reliable since they seem to offer more insight into how they rate and score and they do update past ratings a lot. I'm not familiar with US news they might be good.

 

[Karam.31]

I've found CR to be the most reliable since they seem to offer more insight into how they rate and score and they do update past ratings a lot. I'm not familiar with US news they might be good.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks

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[Bruce_wayne8887]

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks

They look like they do good reviews. I think most sites do good reviews. The hardest part to evaluate is reliability. I'm a bigger fan of Youtube Video Reviews my self. Alex on Autos is great and very in depth, mikescarinfo is great if you want to see the interior and features in depth.

 

[Kamauxx]

These safety systems are not decades old. Imaging, laser, and radar based safety systems were too expensive for mainstream consumer use until recently. Imaging based systems are less than a decade old because of the required computer processing.

Hyundai’s radar based ACC didn’t premiere in Korea until 2009 with radar on the Equus just under 10 years ago.

You’d be correct if you meant adaptive cruise control are the only systems available since the 90s via laser and later radar in very limited use until this decade.

Emergency braking didn’t premiere until the early 2000s.

ACC was first used in a mass produced vehicle in 1992.

Mercedes debuted brake assist tech in 1998. In 2003 Honda introduced autonomous braking.

Blindspot monitoring/warning has been available since 2006, courtesy of Volvo.

Lane departure warning was first used en masse on Mercedes trucks in 2000.

So sure, they aren't all by definition "decades" old. I should have been more specific and said "13-27 years old," I suppose. But again, these aren't new techs. And they most certainly were not invented and implemented in 2016 by Subaru.

 

[Bruce_wayne8887]

ACC was first used in a mass produced vehicle in 1992.

Mercedes debuted brake assist tech in 1998. In 2003 Honda introduced autonomous braking. (sorry, not quite decade(s))

Blindspot monitoring/warning has been available since 2006, courtesy of Volvo.

Lane departure warning was first used en masse on Mercedes trucks in 2000.

So sure, they aren't all by definition "decades" old. I should have been more specific and said "13-27 years old," I suppose. But they most certainly were not invented and implemented in 2016 by Subaru.

I wasn't stating a fact. I was just saying when we were car shopping Subaru at the time was one of the few that offered the safety systems on lower trims. Most at the time you have to go up to the top 2 trims to add those features. I'm sorry i misspoke before, i never meant to imply subaru invented them but rather that they were some of the first to offer all those features on lower trim models instead of top trims.

 

[Dandy]

I don't want to get into this war of words and opinions, I will save my lashings for another thread.

I would like to add a little humor to this. If you have not watched the Mahk videos ripping on Chevy, you have to check them out. This one in particular, he hammers them on the JD Power awards. Watch and laugh...you are welcome