10,000 miles and crapped out

[OGJZ]

Let me start by saying we absolutely LOVE this car, we ordered it in Sept of 2019 and did not get it until April 2020. We have the SX with the Prestige package. Love it.

That being said, last Sunday, and I kid you not, it rolled over 10,000 and started making a horrible noise, idling heavy etc. Got an issue message on the HUD, got it to the dealership. I thought I had screen-shoted the engine light code, but now of course I can't find it, started with a "P".

They have had my car for over a week, they "think" it is the fuel injectors, but because it is a new car the computer is not giving them the "right code". They are trouble shooting the computer to get the correct diagnosis.

Hubbster called today (we assumed we would have heard from them before now, but we are crazy busy and did not call ourselves), the SM did apologize for lack of communication and is renting us a car until they can figure it out.

Not happy, miss my car, miss pressing on the gas and having the car not question whether or not it wants to go like our other POC.

Any thoughts?

 

[fps]

Sounds like a misfire condition. Kia has coil on plugs. A bad coil on the plug or a fowled coil to spark plug connection (with water, due to condensation in the spark plug well) will cause that spark plug to fail to fire. This causes a misfire and a rough idle as one of your pistons is no longer firing. P030x with the x being the cylinder that is misfiring. Sometimes displayed as P030X00. ie. P030100 means cylinder one misfire. P0300 is random misfire and harder to diagnose as no specific cylinder is indicated. Has the weather been changing rapidly for very cool to warm? Did it happen on the first start of the day or after the car had been sitting a while? Has the weather been humid? The coil on the plug has a rubber gasket that seals the spark plug well. If that spark plug well is not sealed, and air can get in, sometimes the air has moisture in it and when the car runs it vaporizes with the heat of the engine. Eventually after enough water condenses in the spark plug well the coil get shorted out and the piston does not the spark anymore. Thus the misfire. Today my telluride is in the shop with a bad coil as well. 8700 miles on it. I have been told its either a bad/defective coil or what I have described above.
There are other possibilities of course, but with the relative age our your car, its probably something simple like I have described above.

BTW, I love my kia too. but German cars have vented coil on plugs to prevent this from happening. Water vapor does not get trapped inside the plug wells--No shorted coils

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

OGJZ,
Same scenario here...6300 miles on ours. Took it to the dealer today and this eve i was just told the same thing that they think when it sits, the fuel injectors are leaking down loosing the pressure causing the engine light to come on and running a little rough then finally the light goes off and it runs smooth again when it builds up pressure again. This has been particularly the first start up in the morning except for today. first start was good , but after the third stop it did it again when starting up.

fps,
Curious how you know those codes you mentioned ? Are you in that line of work or is that what the dealer told you ? Our symptoms are exactly what you describe as well. We are in a climate of temperatures changing lately from cool to warm.

And BTW, We love ours as well, we have never been so happy about a vehicle as we are of this one. But it still puts a doubt on what the future will bring. Obviously this is going to be a problem with others as well. Lets just hope they learn and find the correct remedy for this problem so we all can continue to love this vehicle.

Anyone else experiencing this similar problem ? Please chime in with what you are being told by your dealers.

 

[fps]

OGIZ, I really doubt its the fuel injectors. I'm pretty sure its water in the spark plug well or a bad or shorted coil. I could be wrong though, I don't have your codes. How do I know? Well I have had this issue on other vehicles. I have had this happen to my old ford expedition multiple times. I fixed it myself. First time on the Ford, I just pulled the coils and wicked out the water with a paper towel, then blew the well out with air and replaced the coils. That worked for a while and then months later it returned. This time I repeated the dewatering and then when replacing the coils I sealed the rubber boot with some high temp sealant. No issues after that. I did replace a few of the coils while I was at it. If enough water vapor is trapped in the plug well, eventually even when the engine is warm the spark will be shorted and the cylinder will continue to misfire. I have experienced this first hand. It starts out just being an issue on cold starts and then eventually, when enough water accumulates the cylinder will not fire even when warm. When water is inside the spark plug well it turns to vapor when the engine is warm or hot and then when you shut the engine off it condenses to water and sits on the bottom of the well--essentially the coil connection to the spark plug is sitting in water. the coil is providing energy but instead of making the spark plug fire the energy is diluted and diverted to the entire area and not enough energy gets to the plug to make a spark and ignite the fuel.
This is a know issue with Kia's. Ask the service manager if he or she is aware. Bad coils are also a know issue. I'm surprised the dealer's aren't aware in your area. The Sorento had this issue as well. The Telluride is new. Issues will be coming that will eventually be worked out by Kia.
As far as the fuel injectors leaking? I doubt it, but I'm not the expert. The fuel injectors and system are pressurized before you even attempt to start the car. Have you ever heard that little whine when you open the door? That is the fuel pump pressurizing the system. If anything, leaking fuel injectors may cause the start to take longer but your car is too new really and once started it would run normal. That said, I am not an expert. I am not in the business, but I have researched this, in the case of my Ford, to find the problem without dealer help. The service manager at my kia dealer was in agreement with the coil being the issue in my case. However, I do not know what your codes are. The OBDM diagnostic codes are standardized for the most part and are available on line. My kia app on my phone gave me the code; in my case P030100 ( misfire cyliinder 1) and I looked it up.
It could be other things,. There is a whole list of things on line that cause misfires. The coil and spark is a very easy thing to check before tearing out fuel injectors.
Good luck

______________________________

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

OGIZ, I really doubt its the fuel injectors. I'm pretty sure its water in the spark plug well or a bad or shorted coil. I could be wrong though, I don't have your codes. How do I know? Well I have had this issue on other vehicles. I have had this happen to my old ford expedition multiple times. I fixed it myself. First time on the Ford, I just pulled the coils and wicked out the water with a paper towel, then blew the well out with air and replaced the coils. That worked for a while and then months later it returned. This time I repeated the dewatering and then when replacing the coils I sealed the rubber boot with some high temp sealant. No issues after that. I did replace a few of the coils while I was at it. If enough water vapor is trapped in the plug well, eventually even when the engine is warm the spark will be shorted and the cylinder will continue to misfire. I have experienced this first hand. It starts out just being an issue on cold starts and then eventually, when enough water accumulates the cylinder will not fire even when warm. When water is inside the spark plug well it turns to vapor when the engine is warm or hot and then when you shut the engine off it condenses to water and sits on the bottom of the well--essentially the coil connection to the spark plug is sitting in water. the coil is providing energy but instead of making the spark plug fire the energy is diluted and diverted to the entire area and not enough energy gets to the plug to make a spark and ignite the fuel.
This is a know issue with Kia's. Ask the service manager if he or she is aware. Bad coils are also a know issue. I'm surprised the dealer's aren't aware in your area. The Sorento had this issue as well. The Telluride is new. Issues will be coming that will eventually be worked out by Kia.
As far as the fuel injectors leaking? I doubt it, but I'm not the expert. The fuel injectors and system are pressurized before you even attempt to start the car. Have you ever heard that little whine when you open the door? That is the fuel pump pressurizing the system. If anything, leaking fuel injectors may cause the start to take longer but your car is too new really and once started it would run normal. That said, I am not an expert. I am not in the business, but I have researched this, in the case of my Ford, to find the problem without dealer help. The service manager at my kia dealer was in agreement with the coil being the issue in my case. However, I do not know what your codes are. The OBDM diagnostic codes are standardized for the most part and are available on line. My kia app on my phone gave me the code; in my case P030100 ( misfire cyliinder 1) and I looked it up.
It could be other things,. There is a whole list of things on line that cause misfires. The coil and spark is a very easy thing to check before tearing out fuel injectors.
Good luck

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, It was extremely helpful for when I speak to the dealer tomorrow !

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

OGIZ, I really doubt its the fuel injectors. I'm pretty sure its water in the spark plug well or a bad or shorted coil. I could be wrong though, I don't have your codes. How do I know? Well I have had this issue on other vehicles. I have had this happen to my old ford expedition multiple times. I fixed it myself. First time on the Ford, I just pulled the coils and wicked out the water with a paper towel, then blew the well out with air and replaced the coils. That worked for a while and then months later it returned. This time I repeated the dewatering and then when replacing the coils I sealed the rubber boot with some high temp sealant. No issues after that. I did replace a few of the coils while I was at it. If enough water vapor is trapped in the plug well, eventually even when the engine is warm the spark will be shorted and the cylinder will continue to misfire. I have experienced this first hand. It starts out just being an issue on cold starts and then eventually, when enough water accumulates the cylinder will not fire even when warm. When water is inside the spark plug well it turns to vapor when the engine is warm or hot and then when you shut the engine off it condenses to water and sits on the bottom of the well--essentially the coil connection to the spark plug is sitting in water. the coil is providing energy but instead of making the spark plug fire the energy is diluted and diverted to the entire area and not enough energy gets to the plug to make a spark and ignite the fuel.
This is a know issue with Kia's. Ask the service manager if he or she is aware. Bad coils are also a know issue. I'm surprised the dealer's aren't aware in your area. The Sorento had this issue as well. The Telluride is new. Issues will be coming that will eventually be worked out by Kia.
As far as the fuel injectors leaking? I doubt it, but I'm not the expert. The fuel injectors and system are pressurized before you even attempt to start the car. Have you ever heard that little whine when you open the door? That is the fuel pump pressurizing the system. If anything, leaking fuel injectors may cause the start to take longer but your car is too new really and once started it would run normal. That said, I am not an expert. I am not in the business, but I have researched this, in the case of my Ford, to find the problem without dealer help. The service manager at my kia dealer was in agreement with the coil being the issue in my case. However, I do not know what your codes are. The OBDM diagnostic codes are standardized for the most part and are available on line. My kia app on my phone gave me the code; in my case P030100 ( misfire cyliinder 1) and I looked it up.
It could be other things,. There is a whole list of things on line that cause misfires. The coil and spark is a very easy thing to check before tearing out fuel injectors.
Good luck

Well the conversation with the service mgr didn't go very far. As expected he did not like being questioned about the info I learned from you. He was hesitant to tell me what codes popped up but finally did. Your info was correct he got 2 misfire codes in 3 & 6 cylinders. He said every step they are taking is under direction of Kia technical advisors. He said they send some kind of reading from the computer to Kia and they instructed him to replace the 3 & 6 fuel injectors which will arrive on Tuesday. Needless to say they gave us a loaner to use. I will post updates as things progress.

 

[fps]

Dear SX AWD
Frustrating isn't it. He still didn't actually give you the codes. Just said misfire codes on 3 and 6.. You deserve to know anything you ask for and have it explained in detail to your satisfaction. If the (non mechanic) service manager gets huffy because he can't explain, its because he really doesn't know and is faking it. He is really just a scheduler anyway. Ask to speak to the mechanic that is working on your car. That said, it is under warrantee. They will get it fixed eventually and, yes it takes longer than it should. Keep in mind that on a new vehicle like the Telluride only master mechanics are allowed to work on them at kia dealerships, if they have them. Warrantee work on the telluride is under corporate scrutiny. This means that (I kid you not) that corporate is dictating on a case by case basis what will be done to your car on some issues that have deeper implications, like engine failures. IE... Corporate got the codes from and talked to the mechanic, They told him what to change. They are tracking issues with the new vehicle line up and want as much detail as possible on what is causing issues. Sometimes this may mean looking at parts that aren't obvious, in my opinion, or even the cause. They may be tracking other issues and looking for conformation with your car etc.. But. Rest assured, if they pull the injectors on your car and replace them they will have probably removed the coils and plugs way before they get that deep. If that doesn't work they keep going. In my case, corporate wanted the plug pulled to check for fouling. Might be that if they find a fouled plug they dig even deeper. Sometimes the mechanic really doesn't have a choice. Silly as it sounds, they can miss the obvious. I really have no say (up to a point) as to what they change as they are paying for it.
I wanted my car back yesterday, but corporate is slowing things down dictating what can and can't be done. They are building a database at my and your expense in time.
It will work out in the end. Please ask them for a detailed explanation as to why the fuel injectors were changed and post here if you can. What was wrong with them? are they defective? Were they fouled with crud.. What happened etc... You paid 40K plus for the car. if you want to know they should tell you.
Good luck

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

Dear SX AWD
Frustrating isn't it. He still didn't actually give you the codes. Just said misfire codes on 3 and 6.. You deserve to know anything you ask for and have it explained in detail to your satisfaction. If the (non mechanic) service manager gets huffy because he can't explain, its because he really doesn't know and is faking it. He is really just a scheduler anyway. Ask to speak to the mechanic that is working on your car. That said, it is under warrantee. They will get it fixed eventually and, yes it takes longer than it should. Keep in mind that on a new vehicle like the Telluride only master mechanics are allowed to work on them at kia dealerships, if they have them. Warrantee work on the telluride is under corporate scrutiny. This means that (I kid you not) that corporate is dictating on a case by case basis what will be done to your car on some issues that have deeper implications, like engine failures. IE... Corporate got the codes from and talked to the mechanic, They told him what to change. They are tracking issues with the new vehicle line up and want as much detail as possible on what is causing issues. Sometimes this may mean looking at parts that aren't obvious, in my opinion, or even the cause. They may be tracking other issues and looking for conformation with your car etc.. But. Rest assured, if they pull the injectors on your car and replace them they will have probably removed the coils and plugs way before they get that deep. If that doesn't work they keep going. In my case, corporate wanted the plug pulled to check for fouling. Might be that if they find a fouled plug they dig even deeper. Sometimes the mechanic really doesn't have a choice. Silly as it sounds, they can miss the obvious. I really have no say (up to a point) as to what they change as they are paying for it.
I wanted my car back yesterday, but corporate is slowing things down dictating what can and can't be done. They are building a database at my and your expense in time.
It will work out in the end. Please ask them for a detailed explanation as to why the fuel injectors were changed and post here if you can. What was wrong with them? are they defective? Were they fouled with crud.. What happened etc... You paid 40K plus for the car. if you want to know they should tell you.
Good luck

The saga continues.....They replaced the #3 & #6 Fuel Injectors. We picked it up Wed (6338 mi). I had to drive to NJ to pick up a family member, so I drove a couple hundred miles that day with no problems, It ran fine. No driving on Thursday at all. Friday morning on the first start the Engine light came on again. (6569 mi). Turned the car off and back on again, no engine light. I called the Dealer and they said bring it back in (visit #2) and they gave us a car.

______________________________

 

[fps]

Update on my Telluride.
The dealer was able to duplicate the miss fire on my # 1 cylinder. The latest sequence of events as follows: Swapped the position of 3 coils and 2 plugs (Coils and plugs all looked and checked good electrically with no signs of plug damage or discoloration). Checked for coil continuity and #1 wiring for continuity. Cold soaked the car. Restarted and miss fire recurs on the same cylinder. So "Techline support in California" is having the dealer check the continuity of wiring to the #1 fuel injector from the engine control computer.

Dear SX AWD, It appears that we are both traveling down the same path as my dealer, via the Tech support center, is now looking at problems with the electrical path to the #1 fuel injector. They have not replaced the injector Yet. I hope they can figure it. Intermittent electrical faults are hard to trace. I will let you know what they find. I now suspect a intermittent open ground condition (coils or injectors), as it only happens after a cold soak. The corporate techline is really slow to provide next steps to the dealer(Holiday weekend). The dealers hands a tied and they can only do as directed.
Since your car has two new injectors, which did not fix the condition, I'm inclined to think our problem is electrical based. It will be interesting to see what they find? Hopefully not the engine control module.

Thanks for your update, I will let you know what they find.
FPS

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

FPS,
Update. Once again I got a call from Kia Corporate letting me know they are aware I'm back in the shop. Even though that don't solve the problem, it is nice to know they care and are very concerned and dedicated to solve the issue. Speaking with the dealer today, he informed me the misfire codes they got this time were the #2 and #4. He said Kia is overnighting the remaining 4 injectors since they have already replaced #3 and #6. Kia wants them all replaced and has admitted that they have had issues with fuel injectors. So after this trip, I will definitely be able to rule out an injector issue if this happens again.

OGJZ,
Curious to hear how you are making out with your Telly ?

 

[fps]

OGJZ,
Nice to hear they are overnighting all the injectors..Do you know if the injectors are a new modified or original stock?I have one injector being sent my way..They plan on changing out only number one on mine. Part to arrive by Thursday. Since the fuel bar will be off to replace #1, They will inspect the others. Please keep us informed, and thanks for the update.
FPS

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

FPS, Update..I got some answers to questions you asked. The 2 injectors they previously replaced did not show any visible signs of a problem. The other44 showed up today and will be replaced tomorrow. I asked them to find out if they are from a re-designed version or original stock, he got back to me saying they are original stock using the original part #. After tomorrow all 6 injectors will have been replaced, so only time will tell now. If the problem continues we can rule out bad fuel injectors.

In my last post, I was curious to find out if OGJZ (the one who started this thread) had their problem fixed yet and to what extent they went to

______________________________

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

FPS, Update... All the injectors have been replaced since Friday 12/5. So far so good, no issues. Got it back today !

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

BAD NEWS..... Fuel injectors are not the problem, after replacing all 6 fuel injectors, the problem happened again 3 times today. All 3 times had the same scenario. It was not on start up, but happened when pulling out onto the roadway. Had to pull over shut engine down and restart, then it ran fine. Dealer and Kia Consumer affairs are lost for words. Back to the drawing board. Will be returning to the dealer for the 3rd time and a total of 19 days in the shop so far. So frustrating !

FPS, as you stated it sounds like an intermitted electrical fault which could be impossible to find. Is replacing the ECM a major ordeal ?

 

[skuzuker28]

BAD NEWS..... Fuel injectors are not the problem, after replacing all 6 fuel injectors, the problem happened again 3 times today. All 3 times had the same scenario. It was not on start up, but happened when pulling out onto the roadway. Had to pull over shut engine down and restart, then it ran fine. Dealer and Kia Consumer affairs are lost for words. Back to the drawing board. Will be returning to the dealer for the 3rd time and a total of 19 days in the shop so far. So frustrating !

FPS, as you stated it sounds like an intermitted electrical fault which could be impossible to find. Is replacing the ECM a major ordeal ?

I'm not FPS obviously, but replacing the ECM should not be a major ordeal. It is expensive, but Kia will be eating this one so not your concern.

A bigger problem would be if there is a wiring continuity problem between the injectors and the ECM. That can be the very devil to diagnose, especially when it is intermittent like in your case.

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

I'm not FPS obviously, but replacing the ECM should not be a major ordeal. It is expensive, but Kia will be eating this one so not your concern.

A bigger problem would be if there is a wiring continuity problem between the injectors and the ECM. That can be the very devil to diagnose, especially when it is intermittent like in your case.

Thanks for your input. as stated in earlier posts I think that's what they were checking for on FPS's vehicle but he mentioned he hopes its not the ECM, that's why I was curious if that was a bad road to travel down having to replace that.

______________________________

 

[fps]

SX AwD,
FPS here...Sorry to hear the injectors didn't work. This doesn't bide well for me as they are in the process of changing a singe injector on mine...
Food for thought. I have looked at the palisade forum for issues like ours as they have the same engine. One owner had a clogged OCV..(might be more than one i would assume) this is a oil valve that controls the valves, which if they have low pressure will also cause misfires. It was clogged with manufacturing debris from the factory. It is also on the top of the engine and easier to get at..they removed and cleaned it out and he was good to go. A cam signals the valve to open which moves the valves with oil pressure. In his case he did have other codes besides the misfire codes so it may be different than our case. I asked my dealer if it was possible to check mine for debris but I'm not sure they did yet as corporate is in control and new seals may be needed. Its an idea.. kia had issues with this in the past and it was supposed to be corrected in the manufacturing process.
Let us know what they tell you.
Good luck
FPS

 

[fps]

SX AWD,
By the way..the engine wiring harness isn't super hard to replace if they go that route. That said, your car works after a restart, so ECM maybe ...just guessing now like your dealer i think.
This is not fun.
How many oil changes have you had done and who did them? The dealership? I have also heard that some plastic fitting can be broken during an oil change that could potentially clog the oil system. I have had only one and the dealer did it. I didn't have any issues before the oil change at 5000 miles.. 8700 now.
FPS
FPS

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

SX AWD,
By the way..the engine wiring harness isn't super hard to replace if they go that route. That said, your car works after a restart, so ECM maybe ...just guessing now like your dealer i think.
This is not fun.
How many oil changes have you had done and who did them? The dealership? I have also heard that some plastic fitting can be broken during an oil change that could potentially clog the oil system. I have had only one and the dealer did it. I didn't have any issues before the oil change at 5000 miles.. 8700 now.
FPS
FPS

 

[Telluride SX AWD Wanted !]

FPS, I also had one Oil Change at 5200 miles and did not start having our problem until 1 week after the oil change. Now you have me thinking, how ironic is that ?? it was done at the same dealer doing the work now. we are now at 6700 miles.
What is this plastic fitting you are talking about that can be broken ? Oil filter housing ? Oil plug gasket ? Oil filler cap gasket ? I cant imagine what you are referring to, but this is way too coincidental.
And btw, it happened 3 times yesterday and it did not happen once at all today.