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Any downside to ceramic - other than cost?

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Are there options for strictly front-end ceramic (no hood, just the front-facing parts around the headlights, grill to the fog lamp housings? Would they coat the OEM Kia badge? Grill? Front facing panels for those of us with no front mount/plate?

Kia builds up-armored "light tactical vehicles" for the South Korean army. Maybe they can get me some stronger windshield glass and front-end materials so I can better survive the epidemic of rock-launching Subaru Outback drivers of California.
 
Are there options for strictly front-end ceramic (no hood, just the front-facing parts around the headlights, grill to the fog lamp housings? Would they coat the OEM Kia badge? Grill? Front facing panels for those of us with no front mount/plate?

Kia builds up-armored "light tactical vehicles" for the South Korean army. Maybe they can get me some stronger windshield glass and front-end materials so I can better survive the epidemic of rock-launching Subaru Outback drivers of California.
If you are looking for front end protection look into Paint Protection Film.
 
If you are looking for front end protection look into Paint Protection Film.
I asked my local shops re: PPF and they made no guarantees that if I slathered the whole front front end with PPF that it would defend from most high-speed rock strikes. In many cases, especially with rocks, physics and force vectors still defeat the added "protection".
 
I asked my local shops re: PPF and they made no guarantees that if I slathered the whole front front end with PPF that it would defend from most high-speed rock strikes. In many cases, especially with rocks, physics and force vectors still defeat the added "protection".
Yes I looked at PPF. It is super expensive and no guarantees for rock damage and dreaded Florida love bugs. You can get the front of your car touched up and repainted for similar cost. The guy told me if you take care of your vehicle and keep up with cleaning. No need for PPF. It's for people that don't want to clean and maintain on a regular basis.
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Nothing is stopping serious rock damage. Not ceramic or PPF.

PPF will halt most of the smaller rock debris found on roadways. My XPEL ultimate has a bunch of pebble marks in it and is holding up quick well.

@DarkMossJustin - the majority of the cost for ceramic is the paint prep/polishing/decontamination steps. The coating itself goes on with ease. It wouldn't be useful getting a partial ceramic done on your vehicle.

The paint on the Telluride is notoriously thin per my detailer. He said no matter what any of us do it is going to easily scratch. Wish Kia had a thicker paint but they are known for skimping on the paint thickness as a company. Have to save costs somewhere!
 
I asked my local shops re: PPF and they made no guarantees that if I slathered the whole front front end with PPF that it would defend from most high-speed rock strikes. In many cases, especially with rocks, physics and force vectors still defeat the added "protection".
So I guess there is nothing you could do to protect your vehicle.
 
Thanks for the detailed post. Your Telluride looks beautiful! I just got the IGL Kenzo coating. I didn't get the PPL. Wasn't sure how that would look. Love your side-steps. I'm considering that as well. Kind of fun, but I don't want to go overboard. I have the GG-Non-NF.
Can't wait to see pictures after your first wash! Welcome to the Kenzo club.
 
Yes I looked at PPF. It is super expensive and no guarantees for rock damage and dreaded Florida love bugs. You can get the front of your car touched up and repainted for similar cost. The guy told me if you take care of your vehicle and keep up with cleaning. No need for PPF. It's for people that don't want to clean and maintain on a regular basis.

Sounds like someone was fed disinformation about paint protection film. It is, by far, the best way to protect your paint from rocks, bugs, anything that might impact the vehicle. These days it is so good, many of them have self-healing properties so that when something hits or rubs and causes a blemish, it's gone within hours. It's especially helpful if you're someone that uses automatic car washes instead of hand washing with a neutral pH soap. I have a 2007 Ford Escape, that's been driven in Minnesota winters and many road trips to the east coast and there are ZERO paint chips where the PPF was installed. If you don't have the budget for a professional ceramic coating, I would do the PPF first. That will protect the paint from the bug guts as well.

Instead of a professional coating, you can always use a spray on ceramic coating that will last 2-4 months in the Florida sun and it will make removing the love bugs much easier. There are a couple from Meguiars and Turtle Wax that are pretty good.
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Sounds like someone was fed disinformation about paint protection film. It is, by far, the best way to protect your paint from rocks, bugs, anything that might impact the vehicle. These days it is so good, many of them have self-healing properties so that when something hits or rubs and causes a blemish, it's gone within hours. It's especially helpful if you're someone that uses automatic car washes instead of hand washing with a neutral pH soap. I have a 2007 Ford Escape, that's been driven in Minnesota winters and many road trips to the east coast and there are ZERO paint chips where the PPF was installed. If you don't have the budget for a professional ceramic coating, I would do the PPF first. That will protect the paint from the bug guts as well.

Instead of a professional coating, you can always use a spray on ceramic coating that will last 2-4 months in the Florida sun and it will make removing the love bugs much easier. There are a couple from Meguiars and Turtle Wax that are pretty good.
I put the 303 Graphene coating and hand wash at least once a week. Lovebugs season is a different animal in Florida. A couple years ago it was so bad after a road trip I could barely see out of my windshield. Took me an hour to clean front. The car wash broke that week. They couldn't keep up and the machines broke down. Glad this last year wasn't near as bad.
 
I put the 303 Graphene coating and hand wash at least once a week. Lovebugs season is a different animal in Florida. A couple years ago it was so bad after a road trip I could barely see out of my windshield. Took me an hour to clean front. The car wash broke that week. They couldn't keep up and the machines broke down. Glad this last year wasn't near as bad.

Makes sense, they are terrible. As I'm sure you're aware, there are some good products for bug removal and afterward you can re-apply the graphene after getting them off. Pan has a suggestion on how to get them off. He knows more about it than I do.

 
I put the 303 Graphene coating and hand wash at least once a week. Lovebugs season is a different animal in Florida. A couple years ago it was so bad after a road trip I could barely see out of my windshield. Took me an hour to clean front. The car wash broke that week. They couldn't keep up and the machines broke down. Glad this last year wasn't near as bad.

Makes sense, they are terrible. As I'm sure you're aware, there are some good products for bug removal and afterward you can re-apply the graphene after getting them off. Pan has a suggestion on how to get them off. He knows more about it than I do.

 
I used the turtle wax hybrid on my car the other day and it wanted me to wait 24 hours for a second coat which I didn't have time to do which made me wonder with these compounds and the time people are waiting for it to full "cure". I can't see from my view what exactly is curing? Spray on a clear coat, sure there is some thickness to it and off gassing that need to make its way through the thickness of the coat. That's why they usually tell you not to do anything to the coat for a few week to a month. But ceramic coating? You are applying this material. letting it haze, and then buffing it. What exactly is left to cure and what is is curing too? It can only be a few atoms thick. I think I need a subatomic physicist to explain what this waiting time for curing is. I'm not buying it.
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I used the turtle wax hybrid on my car the other day and it wanted me to wait 24 hours for a second coat which I didn't have time to do which made me wonder with these compounds and the time people are waiting for it to full "cure". I can't see from my view what exactly is curing? Spray on a clear coat, sure there is some thickness to it and off gassing that need to make its way through the thickness of the coat. That's why they usually tell you not to do anything to the coat for a few week to a month. But ceramic coating? You are applying this material. letting it haze, and then buffing it. What exactly is left to cure and what is is curing too? It can only be a few atoms thick. I think I need a subatomic physicist to explain what this waiting time for curing is. I'm not buying it.
Not sure what's not to buy. Do you think it's a scam or something? I don't think anyone gains from recommending a curing time.

Here's some info from NanoPro: Curing Stages of Ceramic Coatings – NANOPRO..

Curing Stages of Ceramic Coatings
Ceramic coatings are meant to provide an additional layer of protection for your paint, a film derived from a reaction between an oligomer, a catalyst, and humidity (water).

The coating has a SiO2 ceramic matrix that includes the condensation product of hydrolyzed alkoxysilane and a colloidal silica sol.

Ceramic coating materials have two main components of silicon dioxide: One is silica sol which is pure SiO2, another is an organoalkoxysilane which is an organic-inorganic hybrid material.

Both materials can make a strong chemical bond from the chemical reaction, condensation. (ORX ′ )X 4−x (ORX′)X4−x groups are hydrolyzed with water and then make condensation with silica sol and each other.

The ceramic coating is applied by a sol-gel process. Two kinds of hydrophobic organic compounds make a chemical bond with the silica ceramic network or matrix and exist in the ceramic structure at a stable state.

The main matrix is composed of a network of silica formed by the chemical reaction or condensation of colloidal silica sol and an organoalkoxysilane such as MTMS (methyltrimethoxysilane).

The surface of colloidal silica is coated by organoalkoxysilanes, in other words, hydrolyzed organoalkoxysilane make a thin layer or coating on the silica surface as a result of the condensation reaction with the hydroxyl groups of the silica surface.

The phrase “nano-ceramic” is often said when referring to SiO2 coatings, which are only the Ceramics. The Nano materials used in coatings usually contain Silanes and Polysiloxanes as hydrophobic agents.

The ceramic molecules are formed in a non-amorphic structure, which gives the coating very high flexibility features, compared to regular glass.

The Silanes (SiH3) are nano molecules while Siloxanes are micro molecules, in addition, Siloxanes are bonded into the ceramic structure of the coating while Silanes are not.

Siloxanes are less sensitive to water spots, whiles Silanes require a topcoat in order to prevent them from reacting with calcium and make “water-spots”.

That is the reason why topcoats, in general, are often made from Functional-Siloxanes and rather from Silanes.

Application tips and guidelines:

The curing time of a ceramic coating depends a lot on the amount of catalyst added to the formula and the humidity rate of the environment.

As written in the chemical explanation, the coating reacts with water at its initial curing stage in order to form the SiO2 molecules, therefore, at the leveling stage of a ceramic coating (right after application), it is possible to use a damp or slightly humid towel in order to properly level the coating the vehicle’s surface without the fear of hurting the coating or making water spots. If you chose to use a damp towel, It’s recommended to do so right after the spreading of the ceramic coating on the surface – the buffing will be much easier, and there is no risk of hurting the ceramic coating as long as the coating is fresh and it hasn’t reached the tack-free stage.

Once the coating reaches the tack-free stage, that means that the polysilazane groups are fully hydrolyzed with water and the coating is dry to the touch. Do not get the surface wet again for at least 7 days.

The hydrolysis of the silica leaves some the catalyst still active and therefore can slowly react with humidity and make the entire surface become hazy white. Some confuse it with water spots – these are white reaction areas of the catalyst with water.
 
I think I need a subatomic physicist to explain what this waiting time for curing is. I'm not buying it.
Hot damn, ask and you shall receive!
 
Here's some info from NanoPro: Curing Stages of Ceramic Coatings – NANOPRO..

Curing Stages of Ceramic Coatings
Ceramic coatings are meant to provide an additional layer of protection for your paint, a film derived from a reaction between an oligomer, a catalyst, and humidity (water).

The coating has a SiO2 ceramic matrix that includes the condensation product of hydrolyzed alkoxysilane and a colloidal silica sol.

Ceramic coating materials have two main components of silicon dioxide: One is silica sol which is pure SiO2, another is an organoalkoxysilane which is an organic-inorganic hybrid material.

Both materials can make a strong chemical bond from the chemical reaction, condensation. (ORX ′ )X 4−x (ORX′)X4−x groups are hydrolyzed with water and then make condensation with silica sol and each other.

The ceramic coating is applied by a sol-gel process. Two kinds of hydrophobic organic compounds make a chemical bond with the silica ceramic network or matrix and exist in the ceramic structure at a stable state.

The main matrix is composed of a network of silica formed by the chemical reaction or condensation of colloidal silica sol and an organoalkoxysilane such as MTMS (methyltrimethoxysilane).

The surface of colloidal silica is coated by organoalkoxysilanes, in other words, hydrolyzed organoalkoxysilane make a thin layer or coating on the silica surface as a result of the condensation reaction with the hydroxyl groups of the silica surface.

The phrase “nano-ceramic” is often said when referring to SiO2 coatings, which are only the Ceramics. The Nano materials used in coatings usually contain Silanes and Polysiloxanes as hydrophobic agents.

The ceramic molecules are formed in a non-amorphic structure, which gives the coating very high flexibility features, compared to regular glass.

The Silanes (SiH3) are nano molecules while Siloxanes are micro molecules, in addition, Siloxanes are bonded into the ceramic structure of the coating while Silanes are not.

Siloxanes are less sensitive to water spots, whiles Silanes require a topcoat in order to prevent them from reacting with calcium and make “water-spots”.

That is the reason why topcoats, in general, are often made from Functional-Siloxanes and rather from Silanes.

Application tips and guidelines:

The curing time of a ceramic coating depends a lot on the amount of catalyst added to the formula and the humidity rate of the environment.

As written in the chemical explanation, the coating reacts with water at its initial curing stage in order to form the SiO2 molecules, therefore, at the leveling stage of a ceramic coating (right after application), it is possible to use a damp or slightly humid towel in order to properly level the coating the vehicle’s surface without the fear of hurting the coating or making water spots. If you chose to use a damp towel, It’s recommended to do so right after the spreading of the ceramic coating on the surface – the buffing will be much easier, and there is no risk of hurting the ceramic coating as long as the coating is fresh and it hasn’t reached the tack-free stage.

Once the coating reaches the tack-free stage, that means that the polysilazane groups are fully hydrolyzed with water and the coating is dry to the touch. Do not get the surface wet again for at least 7 days.

The hydrolysis of the silica leaves some the catalyst still active and therefore can slowly react with humidity and make the entire surface become hazy white. Some confuse it with water spots – these are white reaction areas of the catalyst with water.
[/QUOTE]

Anyone with common sense knows this🤪
 
Not saying it's a scam, I've used it (or a lesser version) and it seems fine. Impossible to find unbiased information that's either not from a manufacturer, seller, or detailer that doesn't have some stake in the process. Again, this is about curing times and not the material itself.
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Not saying it's a scam, I've used it (or a lesser version) and it seems fine. Impossible to find unbiased information that's either not from a manufacturer, seller, or detailer that doesn't have some stake in the process. Again, this is about curing times and not the material itself.
What's to gain in recommending a person not wash their car for two weeks after applying ceramic? There's no profit in it. The issue is water interfering with bonding.

The explanation I provided is the same for all ceramic coatings, not specific to NanoPro. It's the nature of the compound.
 
All things being equal it comes down to best practices.

The higher end coatings are not cheap. Especially if the detailer is highly skilled in paint prep which is expensive and worth it's weight in gold.

Given the time and cost why not just let the chemical reactions fully finish hardening...I'm no scientist but it makes sense. Chemicals reacting to make a sacrificial coating on the vehicle. Yeah it sounds like that would need to harden...especially given some of these are now warrantied for 3-5 years...that warranty is with the detailer not coating manufacturer.

I didn't have my Telluride for the first 4 nights after I picked it up from the dealer...didn't sleep well those nights but I'm glad I didn't rush the detailer because I love my coating.
 
All things being equal it comes down to best practices.

The higher end coatings are not cheap. Especially if the detailer is highly skilled in paint prep which is expensive and worth it's weight in gold.

Given the time and cost why not just let the chemical reactions fully finish hardening...I'm no scientist but it makes sense. Chemicals reacting to make a sacrificial coating on the vehicle. Yeah it sounds like that would need to harden...especially given some of these are now warrantied for 3-5 years...that warranty is with the detailer not coating manufacturer.

I didn't have my Telluride for the first 4 nights after I picked it up from the dealer...didn't sleep well those nights but I'm glad I didn't rush the detailer because I love my coating.
Some of the low or no VOC coatings take longer to cure because they use less solvents or are water based. Some solvents “flash off” more quickly, which should enable a faster curing time. Cross linking the polydimethylsiloxane helps with durability and hardness.

I believe PDMS formation is a hydrolysis reaction, whereas water aids in the formation of the long polymer chains. So relative humidity could have an impact on curing time. I assume the “no washing for a week” is more for the physical contact because you are allowed to drive your car during that week even if it rains or snows. I’ll see if I can find more info on this is you’re interested. I’m a nerd who works in polymers (not synthesis) so this stuff is interesting to me. 🤓
 
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Some of the low or no VOC coatings take longer to cure because they use less solvents or are water based. Some solvents “flash off” more quickly, which should enable a faster curing time. Cross linking the polydimethylsiloxane helps with durability and hardness.

I believe PDMS formation is a hydrolysis reaction, whereas water aids in the formation of the long polymer chains. So relative humidity could have an impact on curing time. I assume the “no washing for a week” is more for the physical contact because you are allowed to drive your car during that week even if it rains or snows. I’ll see if I can find more info on this is you’re interested. I’m a nerd who works in polymers (not synthesis) so this stuff is interesting to me. 🤓
Here is an article that explains a lot. It builds more on what I mentioned and goes a little deeper.

 




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