LKA too sensitive?

[Grinny1]

POST DISCLAIMER: This is obviously not safe and not recommended, but I just tested the LKA function on a long remote trip where there is no traffic, and I was able to drive hands free for 5 miles. The Telly stayed within the lane perfectly. It yelled at me (keep hands on the wheel message) several times, which I obviously deserved. Self driving completely autonomous is on the horizon with KIA.

 

[Husker Soze]

POST DISCLAIMER: This is obviously not safe and not recommended, but I just tested the LKA function on a long remote trip where there is no traffic, and I was able to drive hands free for 5 miles. The Telly stayed within the lane perfectly. It yelled at me (keep hands on the wheel message) several times, which I obviously deserved. Self driving completely autonomous is on the horizon with KIA.

I’m pretty sure you meant LFA.

There seem to be a lot of confusion between these two (LKA vs LFA) distinct features.

 

[Grinny1]

I’m pretty sure you meant LFA.

There seem to be a lot of confusion between these two (LKA vs LFA) distinct features.

Yes, whichever feature keeps between the lines.

 

[Amati5]

Sorry to dig up the old thread but didn’t want to start a new one.

The manual says you must keep your hands on the steering wheel.

So with LFA and SCC on, you actually feel the steering input (to assist) provided from the car with your hands if the car isn’t on the center of the lane? Or it does it in the background (if possible) and your hands don’t feel it?

I would test it myself but don’t have the car yet, . Just reading the manual.


thx

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[Tellthemride]

Sorry to dig up the old thread but didn’t want to start a new one.

The manual says you must keep your hands on the steering wheel.

So with LFA and SCC on, you actually feel the steering input (to assist) provided from the car with your hands if the car isn’t on the center of the lane? Or it does it in the background (if possible) and your hands don’t feel it?

I would test it myself but don’t have the car yet, . Just reading the manual.


thx

Yes, when the LKA or LFA provides steering input, the steering wheel physically moves the direction the wheel moves. At no point does the steering wheel ever disengage from the steering column. So if you drive with your hands off, you will see the wheel turning left and right. Not sure how much turn radius the new 2022 models have with SCC curve, but with 2021 and older, it only has a narrow radius before LFA turns off.

The steering wheel itself has a touch sensor to monitor when you have kept your hands removed for too long. Just keep a relaxed hand on the wheel and you feel the car drive itself, to a certain degree.

 

[Amati5]

That sounds like a good thing for long road trips. Can’t wait to test it out.
thx

 

[HillCountry]

That sounds like a good thing for long road trips. Can’t wait to test it out.
thx

SCC/LFA together really help reduce driver fatigue on road trips.

 

[beato1]

LKA (Lane Keeping Assist) is nice to have because it alerts one when he/she is drifting off the lane (driving on the line). It gently tugs the steering wheel (plus gives a sound and vibrates) to call one's attention that the car is veering off the lane. At the same time, the tugging motion corrects the car back into the lane. It doesn't aim to recenter the Telly but it has that effect because it prevents the
Telly from veering off the lane (which gives one a feeling of ping-ponging if the driver doesn't take over). It is a reactive system. The driver (once alerted with beep and vibration of the wheel will hopefully take control of the Telly by anticipating its action--gentle tugging motion to correct the drifting). The driver can either do two things--allow the LKA to do its job or he/she takes over the maneuvering. Once the driver understands the mechanism behind the LKA, its limitations and its intended use, with practice (practice makes perfect), comfort and confidence will follow. The other side of the LKA is LFA (Lane Following Assist). However, LFA can only be engaged once SCC (Smart Cruise Control) is engaged (through the on wheel menu). LFA (Lane Following Assist) is a proactive system--it kicks in before the drift happens. It keeps the Telly centered and actively monitors via radar and camera. When lines become obscure, it switches to follow the car in front of it. If no car, it disengages. I wrote about this in my previous post. When using the SCC/LFA stop and go's excellent features on surface street where there are plenty of intersections and traffic lights, always anticipate (driving is anticipation--aka, defensive driving) that if the leading vehicle beats the red light, the Telly will also follow that vehicle. Again, knowing how these safety features (wonderful technology, really) works and their limits will bring confidence, hence, less stress in our driving experience. But like the LFA as its limitations (up to 95 miles/hr, only with SCC and disengages when curve is too sharp). Again, it is only intended to aid the driver. Along with LKA, the combo actually shines through! Thanks.

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[Tellthemride]

When lines become obscure, it switches to follow the car in front of it. If no car, it disengages.

This is not accurate. It does not steer based on the travel direction of the leading car. LFA only relies on visible lane markers. Would have been cool if it did, like Tesla’s.

 

[beato1]

Hmm, that's only one way of keeping the Telly centered. Here's another way--"Lane Following Assist tracks the vehicle in front during high traffic conditions, and identifies appropriate spaces in other lanes to move in to safely and gain more ground in heavy congestion. The system uses external sensors to maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front at all times, and only maneuvers when safe spaces are available."--https://www.kia.com/eu/about-kia/experience-kia/technology/drive-wise/

 

[Tellthemride]

Hmm, that's only one way of keeping the Telly centered. Here's another way--"Lane Following Assist tracks the vehicle in front during high traffic conditions, and identifies appropriate spaces in other lanes to move in to safely and gain more ground in heavy congestion. The system uses external sensors to maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front at all times, and only maneuvers when safe spaces are available."--https://www.kia.com/eu/about-kia/experience-kia/technology/drive-wise/

Not all Kia marketing material is accurate. Even the features guide that comes with the Telluride has errors in it. That website has a video demonstration of SCC stop and go and description mislabeled as LFA.

These two videos from Kia’s youtube is more accurate of the two systems.

SCC Stop and Go

LFA

(it mentions that a vehicle is front is also detected by the system, but there doesn’t have to be one for LFA to work. Also at the end of the video it says lane marker detection is required.)

 

[Amati5]

Just curious, on LFA section, the manual says to hold the steering wheel tight. Can LFA still function this way?

______________________________

 

[HillCountry]

Just curious, on LFA section, the manual says to hold the steering wheel tight. Can LFA still function this way?

View attachment 20380

In my experience, LFA does not require a tight grip; a relaxed grip works.

 

[beato1]

Not all Kia marketing material is accurate. Even the features guide that comes with the Telluride has errors in it. That website has a video demonstration of SCC stop and go and description mislabeled as LFA.

These two videos from Kia’s youtube is more accurate of the two systems.

SCC Stop and Go

LFA

(it mentions that a vehicle is front is also detected by the system, but there doesn’t have to be one for LFA to work. Also at the end of the video it says lane marker detection is required.)

“LFA detects the lane and keeps the vehicle at the center, but even when the lane visual is not detected, it still functions by aligning the car’s center to the vehicle ahead. This flexibility allows the driver to drive safely even when the lane lines are blurred or invisible. Due to this difference, LFA, unlike LKA, can function at speeds below 60 km/h where the lane lines may be blocked by the vehicle ahead.” See attached image.

Below is an excellent source of ADAS explanation, as well as the simplest explanation of the difference between LKA and LFA!. Thanks!

현대자동차그룹

현대자동차그룹 홈페이지 방문을 환영합니다. 현대차그룹이 “고객과 인류의 더 나은 미래”를 위해 펼치고 있는 다양한 활동을 확인해 보세요.

tech.hyundaimotorgroup.com

 

[beato1]

Just curious, on LFA section, the manual says to hold the steering wheel tight. Can LFA still function this way?

View attachment 20380

The best explanation for this question: "Basically, LFA and LKA are designed to help the steering so as to prevent lane drifting. But in either case, if the driver really wants to turn, he can steer hard to override the forces of both. For example, if there is a sudden obstacle in the lane, the driver must turn the steering wheel to avoid a collision. If the resistance from the ADAS features is too strong to prevent this turn, then accidents will occur. We did not want this to happen, so we set the system’s control force lower than the force of typical manual steering." Please see my previous post just above this and click on the link I provided. Furthermore, "assist" just means that (Lane Following Assist/Lane Keeping Assist). The driver is still in full control of the Telly. Thanks.

 

[Amati5]

The best explanation for this question: "Basically, LFA and LKA are designed to help the steering so as to prevent lane drifting. But in either case, if the driver really wants to turn, he can steer hard to override the forces of both. For example, if there is a sudden obstacle in the lane, the driver must turn the steering wheel to avoid a collision. If the resistance from the ADAS features is too strong to prevent this turn, then accidents will occur. We did not want this to happen, so we set the system’s control force lower than the force of typical manual steering." Please see my previous post just above this and click on the link I provided. Furthermore, "assist" just means that (Lane Following Assist/Lane Keeping Assist). The driver is still in full control of the Telly. Thanks.

it’s the other way around. My question was can LFA still steer lightly on its own to center the car if you hold the the steering wheel tightly as recommended in the manual. With both hands on the steering wheel, that’s a lot of weight from your arms resting on the steering wheel.

______________________________

 

[beato1]

it’s the other way around. My question was can LFA still steer lightly on its own to center the car if you hold the the steering wheel tightly as recommended in the manual. With both hands on the steering wheel, that’s a lot of weight from your arms resting on the steering wheel.

No.

 

[Tellthemride]

“LFA detects the lane and keeps the vehicle at the center, but even when the lane visual is not detected, it still functions by aligning the car’s center to the vehicle ahead. This flexibility allows the driver to drive safely even when the lane lines are blurred or invisible. Due to this difference, LFA, unlike LKA, can function at speeds below 60 km/h where the lane lines may be blocked by the vehicle ahead.” See attached image.

Below is an excellent source of ADAS explanation, as well as the simplest explanation of the difference between LKA and LFA!. Thanks!

현대자동차그룹

현대자동차그룹 홈페이지 방문을 환영합니다. 현대차그룹이 “고객과 인류의 더 나은 미래”를 위해 펼치고 있는 다양한 활동을 확인해 보세요.

tech.hyundaimotorgroup.com

This source (HMG) represents three auto brands: Hyundai, Genesis and Kia. There is a good chance LFA in a Genesis might be able to match steering to a leading vehicle, but it doesn’t clearly state this technology exists in a Telluride. And through all the times I have used LFA, I haven’t seen any scenario where my SXP can “follow a leading car’s steering direction” with no visible lane markers.

it’s the other way around. My question was can LFA still steer lightly on its own to center the car if you hold the the steering wheel tightly as recommended in the manual. With both hands on the steering wheel, that’s a lot of weight from your arms resting on the steering wheel.

Keep in mind grip strength of the wheel is not the same as applying left or right rotational force. LFA is always steering you where the lanes are going, so unless you are intentionally trying to switch lanes or drive off the road while LFA is on, you pretty much will want to go where it takes you anyway. The only scenario where you would need to fight it more frequently is driving past highway off ramps when it tries to follow the offramp lanes. It doesn’t take much effort to over power the steering input from LFA though.

In terms of the question if you “have to” have a tight grip to use LFA, the answer is no. You just need to have enough skin contact and gentle force for the wheel to “think” you are holding it. You can even get away with your lap pressing against the wheel while wearing shorts.

 

[beato1]

This source (HMG) represents three auto brands: Hyundai, Genesis and Kia. There is a good chance LFA in a Genesis might be able to match steering to a leading vehicle, but it doesn’t clearly state this technology exists in a Telluride. And through all the times I have used LFA, I haven’t seen any scenario where my SXP can “follow a leading car’s steering direction”.

And this is why LFA only engages when SCC is on! The combo achieves this more effectively than when only SCC is engaged! LFA will not function without the SCC! In other word, you cannot decouple LFA from SCC! LFA just cannot stand on its own! It's a cool feature on its own but it's not how its designed! It is a well executed design! Why implement it and then cripple it? Thanks! Here's not a blog--https://tech.hyundaimotorgroup.com/article/hyundai-and-kias-ai-based-driver-tailored-adas-technology/

 

[RedTailedHawk]

LKA (Lane Keeping Assist) is nice to have because it alerts one when he/she is drifting off the lane (driving on the line). It gently tugs the steering wheel (plus gives a sound and vibrates) to call one's attention that the car is veering off the lane. At the same time, the tugging motion corrects the car back into the lane. It doesn't aim to recenter the Telly but it has that effect because it prevents the
Telly from veering off the lane (which gives one a feeling of ping-ponging if the driver doesn't take over). It is a reactive system. The driver (once alerted with beep and vibration of the wheel will hopefully take control of the Telly by anticipating its action--gentle tugging motion to correct the drifting). The driver can either do two things--allow the LKA to do its job or he/she takes over the maneuvering. Once the driver understands the mechanism behind the LKA, its limitations and its intended use, with practice (practice makes perfect), comfort and confidence will follow. The other side of the LKA is LFA (Lane Following Assist). However, LFA can only be engaged once SCC (Smart Cruise Control) is engaged (through the on wheel menu). LFA (Lane Following Assist) is a proactive system--it kicks in before the drift happens. It keeps the Telly centered and actively monitors via radar and camera. When lines become obscure, it switches to follow the car in front of it. If no car, it disengages. I wrote about this in my previous post. When using the SCC/LFA stop and go's excellent features on surface street where there are plenty of intersections and traffic lights, always anticipate (driving is anticipation--aka, defensive driving) that if the leading vehicle beats the red light, the Telly will also follow that vehicle. Again, knowing how these safety features (wonderful technology, really) works and their limits will bring confidence, hence, less stress in our driving experience. But like the LFA as its limitations (up to 95 miles/hr, only with SCC and disengages when curve is too sharp). Again, it is only intended to aid the driver. Along with LKA, the combo actually shines through! Thanks.

Nicely explained. Thank you. I was a bit lost with all the abbreviations. I'm still waiting for my Telly and am not sure where to obtain its manual for preview.