Ridiculous $5k upcharge for Nightfall.

[2020Telly]

That being said, I would consider the XC90 Inscription Expression IF I could get a leftover for around $60k.

If you can get a deal I genuinely hope you like it. Your statement sort of illustrates my point. You are a potential luxury SUV buyer posting on a Kia Telluride forum. How many times over Kia's US presence has a luxury car shopper considered a Kia model in it's first generation? The traditional Kia buyers are now competing with people willing to pay more and supply is not keeping up.

 

[maddmike]

If you can get a deal I genuinely hope you like it. Your statement sort of illustrates my point. You are a potential luxury SUV buyer posting on a Kia Telluride forum. How many times over Kia's US presence has a luxury car shopper considered a Kia model in it's first generation? The traditional Kia buyers are now competing with people willing to pay more and supply is not keeping up.

I have owned and still own "luxury" brands although I hate that term as I think items that they are calling luxury are just good practices and build quality. Yes, I can be a bit particular but not a snob. Volvo may not be the most reliable these days but the materials that they use on their interior are very nice and can't really be compared with Kia. Yes, companies like Mazda, Kia, Hyundai etc but some "luxury" touches and materials in place but they still cut some corners with hard plastics below the belt line, plastic knobs that don't quite have that feel etc. They make up for it with better reliability usually but I find that their interiors don't wear as nice and age a lot faster. I was on the Carvana web site the other day looking at some used Palisade and maybe it was from people not treating them as they would a BMW, but the seats looked like crap, there were scratches all around the rear portion hard plastic on the center console and the lid looked like it was not aligning properly. Part of the headliner looked to be sagging etc. This on a 20k mile car. Maybe that particular car was abused but it reinforced my impression that the interiors of some more budget-friendly vehicles have a nice veneer but not the same attention to material longevity as the "luxury" brands.

My Lexus GX460 has 100k miles on it but the interior looks great. Before that I had a CX-9 Signature that I only kept for one year but I noticed the hard plastics on the lower door panels were getting scuffed and looking ratty among some other things. Before that I had an X5 whose interior still looked great after 5 years with no rattles of much wear to speak of (it did break down all the time once the warranty expired though). In addition, the level of service you get at the dealership plays into people's brand perceptions and choices.

In addition, US shoppers are willing to pay MSRP or less on things. I work in sales and in the Middle East, we mark up our products heavily so that we can discount them 70% as that is what is expected. In the US, we discount 30%. If a customer comes to us and we mark up our product 10%, we would lose that customer.

I guess my point is, Kia should have started with a higher MSRP and maybe some nicer interior touches but I think they saved that for the Genesis. Most Americans will bulk at paying over MSRP but if the Telluride was $60k and discounted to $55, they would buy it. Perceived value is a big deal in the human psyche. Two shampoos on the shelf, one $3 and one $12 could have the exact same ingredients but the $12 will be perceived to be better. Give a customer a $2 off coupon for the $12 shampoo and they will happily pick it and think they got a great deal. Tell them that you are marking up the $3 shampoo to $4 due to market demand and they will also buy the $12 one because F you.

 

[dsmclone]

I have owned and still own "luxury" brands although I hate that term as I think items that they are calling luxury are just good practices and build quality. Yes, I can be a bit particular but not a snob. Volvo may not be the most reliable these days but the materials that they use on their interior are very nice and can't really be compared with Kia. Yes, companies like Mazda, Kia, Hyundai etc but some "luxury" touches and materials in place but they still cut some corners with hard plastics below the belt line, plastic knobs that don't quite have that feel etc. They make up for it with better reliability usually but I find that their interiors don't wear as nice and age a lot faster. I was on the Carvana web site the other day looking at some used Palisade and maybe it was from people not treating them as they would a BMW, but the seats looked like crap, there were scratches all around the rear portion hard plastic on the center console and the lid looked like it was not aligning properly. Part of the headliner looked to be sagging etc. This on a 20k mile car. Maybe that particular car was abused but it reinforced my impression that the interiors of some more budget-friendly vehicles have a nice veneer but not the same attention to material longevity as the "luxury" brands.

My Lexus GX460 has 100k miles on it but the interior looks great. Before that I had a CX-9 Signature that I only kept for one year but I noticed the hard plastics on the lower door panels were getting scuffed and looking ratty among some other things. Before that I had an X5 whose interior still looked great after 5 years with no rattles of much wear to speak of (it did break down all the time once the warranty expired though). In addition, the level of service you get at the dealership plays into people's brand perceptions and choices.

In addition, US shoppers are willing to pay MSRP or less on things. I work in sales and in the Middle East, we mark up our products heavily so that we can discount them 70% as that is what is expected. In the US, we discount 30%. If a customer comes to us and we mark up our product 10%, we would lose that customer.

I guess my point is, Kia should have started with a higher MSRP and maybe some nicer interior touches but I think they saved that for the Genesis. Most Americans will bulk at paying over MSRP but if the Telluride was $60k and discounted to $55, they would buy it. Perceived value is a big deal in the human psyche. Two shampoos on the shelf, one $3 and one $12 could have the exact same ingredients but the $12 will be perceived to be better. Give a customer a $2 off coupon for the $12 shampoo and they will happily pick it and think they got a great deal. Tell them that you are marking up the $3 shampoo to $4 due to market demand and they will also buy the $12 one because F you.

I don't know this would work in the U.S.. I think everyone agrees that the Telluride is the best in the class but the Kia name is still not on the same level as Honda/Toyota. I think the Telluride is priced exactly where it needs to be. If it was $5k more it would be bumping up against vehicles like the 2022 Acura MDX and I don't think that's a fight it would win. Keep in mind that the Telluride will probably sell 75k in 2020. The Honda Pilot, which is on its last year before a redesign is selling 135k and was over 150k the year before. As recently as 2018, the Toyota Highlander sold nearly 250k units. Right now, Kia is selling every Telluride they make but if you bumped that price up by $5k, they would sell a LOT fewer models. As nice as it is, I think $50k is really pushing it for a Kia named car. Probably not what people want to admit, but I've been on enough non Kia forums to know perception.

 

[2020Telly]

I don't know this would work in the U.S.. I think everyone agrees that the Telluride is the best in the class but the Kia name is still not on the same level as Honda/Toyota. I think the Telluride is priced exactly where it needs to be. If it was $5k more it would be bumping up against vehicles like the 2022 Acura MDX and I don't think that's a fight it would win. Keep in mind that the Telluride will probably sell 75k in 2020. The Honda Pilot, which is on its last year before a redesign is selling 135k and was over 150k the year before. As recently as 2018, the Toyota Highlander sold nearly 250k units. Right now, Kia is selling every Telluride they make but if you bumped that price up by $5k, they would sell a LOT fewer models. As nice as it is, I think $50k is really pushing it for a Kia named car. Probably not what people want to admit, but I've been on enough non Kia forums to know perception.

That's my assessment as well. Pricing it too high over the presumed direct competition and category leaders in Toyota Highlander or Honda Pilot and they would have priced themselves out of consideration for some buyers. It would have had the same critics gushing over the value you get for under $50K MSRP nitpicking every minor detail proving why it wasn't worth being priced alongside the traditional luxury brands that start at $50K.

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[maddmike]

If you can get a deal I genuinely hope you like it. Your statement sort of illustrates my point. You are a potential luxury SUV buyer posting on a Kia Telluride forum. How many times over Kia's US presence has a luxury car shopper considered a Kia model in it's first generation? The traditional Kia buyers are now competing with people willing to pay more and supply is not keeping up.

Damn, so I was playing with my local Volvo dealer and asked him to give me his best price on the XC90 inscription hybrid. One was MSRP at $68 and he took $10k off the price as well as gave me more for my Lexus trade in thank Kia (my Lexus is from the same dealer family). My OTD price with taxes and all would come out to $55 which is only a couple K more than the Telluride with all the options. Obviously, that build is missing some of the stuff I wanted so I asked him to see what he can do on a higher-end build. If he knocks 12-14k of that we may just have a deal.

Oh, and there is a $5000 tax credit which makes it cheaper than the Telluride with options.

So, depending on how depreciation is calculated, if it is off the MSRP:
XC90 Hybrid: MSRP $68k, sales price $56k, tax credit $5k. depreciation at 65% off MSRP $24k residual value. So, $56-$5-$24=$27k in ownership cost not counting fuel savings and free maintenance for 3 years
Telluride: Price $50k $25.5k residual value=$24.5k in ownership costs plus gas and maintenance.

So cost of ownership is about $2.5k cheaper with the Telluride not including the free Volvo maintenance and the gas savings. Yes, once out of warranty, the Volvo costs may skyrocket so you may want to pony up $2k or so for an extended warranty if you plan on keeping it long term but really, the cost of ownership over 5 years is a wash. I have not quoted insurance but I assume the Volvo is higher.

 

[pnwwarrior]

I'm not sure I get your point. Is it that no one really knows what is going to happen with the next round of globalization and changing consumer relationships with vehicles so everything is just a guess at this point so pay whatever you think it is worth?

That being said, I would consider the XC90 Inscription Expression IF I could get a leftover for around $60k.

@maddmike that's easy - in fact you can get 1 for $56~57k, and not a leftover but 2021 model. On top of this - you also get $5.4k tax credit for next year. I just spoke to a Volvo dealer today and I am going to test drive their hybrid this weekend.
Check out posts on this forum US Prices Paid / Lease Figures - lots of people have got 1 for around ~55-58k for a T8 with a sticker price of $68.
If I like the car (high chances that I will), I am going to negotiate and drive away if I get one for below 57k - that's a heck of a deal!

 

[YAH DEF]

Damn, so I was playing with my local Volvo dealer and asked him to give me his best price on the XC90 inscription hybrid. One was MSRP at $68 and he took $10k off the price as well as gave me more for my Lexus trade in thank Kia (my Lexus is from the same dealer family). My OTD price with taxes and all would come out to $55 which is only a couple K more than the Telluride with all the options. Obviously, that build is missing some of the stuff I wanted so I asked him to see what he can do on a higher-end build. If he knocks 12-14k of that we may just have a deal.

Oh, and there is a $5000 tax credit which makes it cheaper than the Telluride with options.

So, depending on how depreciation is calculated, if it is off the MSRP:
XC90 Hybrid: MSRP $68k, sales price $56k, tax credit $5k. depreciation at 65% off MSRP $24k residual value. So, $56-$5-$24=$27k in ownership cost not counting fuel savings and free maintenance for 3 years
Telluride: Price $50k $25.5k residual value=$24.5k in ownership costs plus gas and maintenance.

So cost of ownership is about $2.5k cheaper with the Telluride not including the free Volvo maintenance and the gas savings. Yes, once out of warranty, the Volvo costs may skyrocket so you may want to pony up $2k or so for an extended warranty if you plan on keeping it long term but really, the cost of ownership over 5 years is a wash. I have not quoted insurance but I assume the Volvo is higher.

Mike, which car do you actually want? Anyone can calculate the eff out of any purchase/decision. By calculate, I mean balance present and anticipated costs against present and anticipated needs and desires. It's as much numbers as emotion - maybe more so emotion (which numbers also generate, including discounts that give a pleasant sensation of leveling up or winning). I'm all for a cost/benefit analysis. But I'm curious which car would you rather be sitting in and driving. Maybe that's the one.

 

[2020Telly]

His handle is “mad” mike. That must mean he wants the meaner and cooler Telluride over the mild mannered conservative Volvo.

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[maddmike]

Mike, which car do you actually want? Anyone can calculate the eff out of any purchase/decision. By calculate, I mean balance present and anticipated costs against present and anticipated needs and desires. It's as much numbers as emotion - maybe more so emotion (which numbers also generate, including discounts that give a pleasant sensation of leveling up or winning). I'm all for a cost/benefit analysis. But I'm curious which car would you rather be sitting in and driving. Maybe that's the one.

The is the question.

The hunt is half the fun.