Telluride vs Carnival?

[sprengBoard]

Yes our dog is spoiled and likes to go with us everywhere and she has her own bed and basket in the back with her stuff (cooling mat, treats, harness, etc.) in here as well. Our frenchie is aging as well with only two years left until she reaches the age of life expectancy of her breed. I guess I should have noted that’s something we need space for as well earlier. My main concern though is my kids (well mostly my youngest obviously as he is just starting school this year)being able to get in and take their little packs off and get in their car seats quickly and without much help. But that, PLUS all our crap + furry family member being in the back as well I just worry that it will be too slow and sluggish. I don’t want to get hit from behind because I’m used to driving vehicles with some oomph under the hood. The more I read the more I am thinking though perhaps for this short season of our lives, a van really would be best.

Car & Driver clocked both the Carnival and Telluride at 7.0 seconds 0-60 and 15.3 1/4 mile

 

[DWarned]

Car & Driver clocked both the Carnival and Telluride at 7.0 seconds 0-60 and 15.3 1/4 mile

Oh, sweet!! I mean that’s not sporty or anything but still.

 

[sprengBoard]

Oh, sweet!! I mean that’s not sporty or anything but still.

In reality the Telluride should be slightly quicker as the Carnival is roughly 400 pounds heavier and has a slightly lower final drive ratio (transmission ratios are the same).Tire diameter of the Carnival is slightly smaller than the Telluride likely negating the lower final drive. Both have very similar horsepower and torque ratings, though they're made at slightly different RPMs.

• Carnival:
  • Curb weight: 4376 - 4727 lbs.
  • Horsepower: 290 @ 6,400 rpm
  • Torque: 262 lb.-ft. @ 5,000 rpm
  • Final drive: 3.510:1
  • Tire Diameter: 29.2"
• Telluride:
  • Curb weight (FWD): 4112 - 4317 lbs.
  • Curb weight (AWD): 4255 - 4482 lbs.
  • Horsepower: 291 @ 6,000 rpm
  • Torque: 262 lb.-ft. @ 5,200 rpm
  • Final drive: 3.648:1
  • Tire Diameter: 29.6"

One thing that's interesting to me is that the Carnival engine (Lambda III) makes almost identical power and torque numbers at almost the same RPM but is only a 3.5L with 12.3:1 compression, whereas the Telluride engine (Lambda II) is a 3.8L with 13.0:1 compression. The Carnival has a newer engine with newer technology.

 

[MG535]

I only lease my vehicles

Based on the programs published by Edmunds it’s not going to be an attractive lease.

Quote:

Kia Carnival SX prestige. Zip code 13209

36 months with 10k miles/ 12k miles?

Thanks!

36/12
.00135 MF and 60% RV
No incentives

______________________________

 

[YEH]

I looked at the Sedona when I was shopping for my Telluride. There's no way I would buy a Carnival brand new. The name change isn't going to save you from the depreciation hit the Sedonas would take.

Wouldn't count on prices of used Carnivals to drop like that of the Sedonas.

Like the Telluride, the Carnival has an ATP of over $40k (several thousand over the Odyssey) and it has dethroned the Telluride as the Kia with the tightest inventory; granted, Kia is only selling around 3.5-4k Carnivals a month as opposed to 8-9k Tellurides a month, but Kia is also selling 6-7k Carnivals a month in Korea.

Think the upcoming Carnival hybrid will especially be in demand.

The K8 is also doing 6k/month in Korea - those 3 models are printing $$ for Kia.

 

[NDBlackEX]

Wouldn't count on prices of used Carnivals to drop like that of the Sedonas.

Like the Telluride, the Carnival has an ATP of over $40k (several thousand over the Odyssey) and it has dethroned the Telluride as the Kia with the tightest inventory; granted, Kia is only selling around 3.5-4k Carnivals a month as opposed to 8-9k Tellurides a month, but Kia is also selling 6-7k Carnivals a month in Korea.

Think the upcoming Carnival hybrid will especially be in demand.

The K8 is also doing 6k/month in Korea - those 3 models are printing $$ for Kia.

So we're basically seeing the same trend that we saw the first couple years of each new Sedona generation. This time, at least as far as I know, they're producing more higher trims. The bread and butter for Kia with the Sedonas was the lower trims. Undercutting the competition's low trims and great lease deals were what kept Sedonas moving off lots. There's low inventory in the market, period. People are snatching up what they can. I've seen about 8 come through my local dealer thus far. All but one of the ones I've seen have been SX or SXP. I'd expect the ATP to drop once the newness wears off.

I'd bet that since they redo the van every six years or so, you see quite a few buyers upgrade to the current gen when they come out. Likely making up a considerable share of the first two years' sales. Mix in some good lease deals and you've got a good couple of sales years. Then, year 3-4, excitement generally wanes, the competition is refreshed, the leases get turned in and suddenly the used market is flooded. Now if you're in the market, you're left with the decision to buy new or slightly used for about half the price. That's my observation as to how Kia's van market has gone historically. Will the name change fix that? I don't know, maybe ask Mazda how their MPV rebranding of a van worked out.

Having said all that, I have no beef with the Kia vans. I just wouldn't buy one brand new. It's like an RV, unless you want something very specific, buy a two year old one and save about 40%. Again, in the current market, rv values are high but that will likely return to pre pandemic levels eventually.

Now, talking about tight inventory, we'll see how that holds up. Here's the difference with Carnival and Telluride: We'll learn relatively quick what the Carnival's sales ceiling is. Historically, they've been able to produce at least as many as they could sell. Peaking out at around 44k units in a year for the previous gen, I doubt there were people left wanting and waiting for Sedonas like the Telluride, they were able to produce one for everyone who wanted one and then some. I've always wondered what the Telluride's ceiling is. We may never know, I have heard no plans for expansion of their production capacity in the near future. For example, about 125-150k Pilots are moved per year, 225-250k Highlanders are sold. Tellys are topped out at around 110k or so production wise. I wonder at what point they'd have significant dealer stock? 125k? 150k? 200k?

Unless the Telluride is cutting into Carnival production capacity, my guess is that they sell 35-40k vans the first year and 40-50k the 2nd with dealer stock widely available if things kinda go back to normal with declines year over after that. At least that's the trend with the previous two gens.

Needless to say, it's been interesting to watch.