Towing a 4170 lbs travel trailer?

[VinceB]

We've been towing a 3300 lbs KZ 180RBT for the last three years and it's a charm with our 2021 Telluride. We're looking to upgrade to a 4170 lbs KZ E231BH; dry hitch weight is 510 lbs, dry axel weight is 3660 lbs. What are your experiences with a travel trailer of the weight? And what are your thoughts about the tongue weight (I thought it was lower... )?

 

[alexdrums]

Is the “dry hitch weight” equivalent to tongue weight when it is on the vehicle? Does the trailer have brakes?

 

[alexdrums]

We've been towing a 3300 lbs KZ 180RBT for the last three years and it's a charm with our 2021 Telluride. We're looking to upgrade to a 4170 lbs KZ E231BH; dry hitch weight is 510 lbs, dry axel weight is 3660 lbs. What are your experiences with a travel trailer of the weight? And what are your thoughts about the tongue weight (I thought it was lower... )?

Yeah, this is a huge trailer. I am thinking you will need to upgrade to a full-size truck also

 

[TellmeyourWHAT?]

We've been towing a 3300 lbs KZ 180RBT for the last three years and it's a charm with our 2021 Telluride. We're looking to upgrade to a 4170 lbs KZ E231BH; dry hitch weight is 510 lbs, dry axel weight is 3660 lbs. What are your experiences with a travel trailer of the weight? And what are your thoughts about the tongue weight (I thought it was lower... )?

Your tongue weight is slightly over the limit. Is there anyway to reduce that by perhaps shifting some weight in the trailer?
I would think that much will depend on how far you intend to trailer? If it is just a few miles, it shouldn't be of much concern - purely my opinion. But if you are going 1000 miles, some of which might be in hilly terrain, that is a different story.

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[VinceB]

Is the “dry hitch weight” equivalent to tongue weight when it is on the vehicle? Does the trailer have brakes?

I'm not sure what you mean by "on the vehicule", but 510 lbs is the "dry hitch weight" provided by KZ on their website and "dry hitch weight" and "tongue weight" are supposed to be the same thing.

As for the brakes, the trailer for sure has some and I have an electronic brake controller installed on my Telluride.

 

[VinceB]

Your tongue weight is slightly over the limit. Is there anyway to reduce that by perhaps shifting some weight in the trailer?
I would think that much will depend on how far you intend to trailer? If it is just a few miles, it shouldn't be of much concern - purely my opinion. But if you are going 1000 miles, some of which might be in hilly terrain, that is a different story.

You mean that putting more weight at the rear of the trailer might be have a impact on the "real" tongue weight?

As for the distance, that's a good point. This summer, we're going out often, but not going that far (100-200 km). But that might not be the case next year... :-/

 

[VinceB]

Well, what to you know... Since the 2023 model obviously won't work out because of the tongue weight (4170 - 510), I found out that the 2022 model is lighter (4140 - 470), so are the 2021 (4000 - 450) and the 2020 (3870 - 470). We really like this model, so I guess I'm gonna have to find one of those...!

 

[alexdrums]

Once you get everything loaded up for your first trip with the new trailer, a good idea would be to head over to a local truck scale to get the actual weight of everything: vehicle, tongue weight, trailer weight and combined weight to make sure you are within specs

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[2020Telly]

Based on what I read on the KZ website, that 510 number is a rolling average. The only way to know for sure is to weigh the tongue weight of the actual one you plan to buy at the RV dealer before you buy the travel trailer. Depending on the options equipped it could be more or less. If the RV dealer doesn't have a fancy way to measure TW, you can get a bathroom scale and some 2x4s and check out a couple YouTube videos.

But the bigger concern is that dry hitch weight doesn't account for the cargo. It's not often people go camping with no clothes, no propane, and kitchen supplies. Even if you empty out the waste water and clean water, if you are at close to 500 before you add cargo, you might want to consider a bigger tow vehicle or a smaller travel trailer. Even if you put all that cargo in the towing vehicle and leave it out of the travel trailer, you still have to account for the weight over the rear axle and the overall GVWR of the towing vehicle. A 27' long trailer is pretty big to haul with the Telluride. An ultra lightweight around 21-25 with two axles might be closer to what you could comfortably and safely haul with a mid-sized SUV like the Telluride.

 

[VinceB]

Based on what I read on the KZ website, that 510 number is a rolling average. The only way to know for sure is to weigh the tongue weight of the actual one you plan to buy at the RV dealer before you buy the travel trailer. Depending on the options equipped it could be more or less. If the RV dealer doesn't have a fancy way to measure TW, you can get a bathroom scale and some 2x4s and check out a couple YouTube videos.

But the bigger concern is that dry hitch weight doesn't account for the cargo. It's not often people go camping with no clothes, no propane, and kitchen supplies. Even if you empty out the waste water and clean water, if you are at close to 500 before you add cargo, you might want to consider a bigger tow vehicle or a smaller travel trailer. Even if you put all that cargo in the towing vehicle and leave it out of the travel trailer, you still have to account for the weight over the rear axle and the overall GVWR of the towing vehicle. A 27' long trailer is pretty big to haul with the Telluride. An ultra lightweight around 21-25 with two axles might be closer to what you could comfortably and safely haul with a mid-sized SUV like the Telluride.

Do you believe going to 450 or 470 makes a significant difference?

By the way, according to KZ, our current hybrid is 426. It is 23', and 3300.

 

[2020Telly]

Do you believe going to 450 or 470 makes a significant difference?

By the way, according to KZ, our current hybrid is 426. It is 23', and 3300.

Depends on how much cargo you plan to load up in the travel trailer. If you add 800lbs of cargo it will add to the tongue weight because that's a calculation of loaded tongue weight not dry weight. Also positioning of the cargo matters. Typically if you load most of the cargo directly over the axle(s) then you might impact the tongue weight less. But I don't think you will ever be able to drop below the dry weight without lifting the rear wheels off the ground some and then your brakes are not able to function well. Depending on the year, the travel trailers that are double vs single axle have different hitch weight I think based on the materials they used. The ones that advertise ultra lightweight are probably the place to start. Consider that a pop up camper might have a single axle and a very short length, logically that makes you think low tongue weight, but in reality it's usually a very high tongue weight because the length of the trailer is so short that the weight can't be distributed. So if you go longer you start to see lower TW because the weight gets distributed up until a point where you hit the length where it starts to go up again. The other trap is don't think that a weight distribution hitch matters in this calculation. They are necessary for proper towing and weight management, but some people assume that it lowers the tongue weight, that's not what it's meant to do. You should do your calculations assuming you will have a WDH setup but you aren't going to use that to lower any numbers.

 

[2020Telly]

If you can live with your hybrid travel trailer (popout attached to shell) a little while longer, I think there is a huge industry shift in these coming soon. The problem people have with towing a travel trailer with an EV is how it kills the range. I think people are thinking that means they can't go to an EV SUV or truck if they tow. I think the answer is going to be using hybrid with a different meaning by making the travel trailer also BEV capable. A travel trailer has so much potential to evenly distribute a large battery bank and add BEV motor to the axle along with regenerative braking and even use the roof of the travel trailer to do a little solar charging. Then you basically take your ICE vehicle attach it to your BEV travel trailer and you made yourself a hybrid. Or you hook it up to your BEV SUV or Truck and you have a whole new power source that might actually increase your range. Of course, if you can't wait and you need to replace your hybrid travel trailer, go for an ultra lightweight option and you might find something decent.

Back when I thought my 2020 Telluride only had 350lbs of tongue weight, I compiled a list of travel trailers with a low hitch weight and posted to this forum. That list is pretty old now.

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[alexdrums]

Depends on how much cargo you plan to load up in the travel trailer. If you add 800lbs of cargo it will add to the tongue weight because that's a calculation of loaded tongue weight not dry weight. Also positioning of the cargo matters. Typically if you load most of the cargo directly over the axle(s) then you might impact the tongue weight less. But I don't think you will ever be able to drop below the dry weight without lifting the rear wheels off the ground some and then your brakes are not able to function well. Depending on the year, the travel trailers that are double vs single axle have different hitch weight I think based on the materials they used. The ones that advertise ultra lightweight are probably the place to start. Consider that a pop up camper might have a single axle and a very short length, logically that makes you think low tongue weight, but in reality it's usually a very high tongue weight because the length of the trailer is so short that the weight can't be distributed. So if you go longer you start to see lower TW because the weight gets distributed up until a point where you hit the length where it starts to go up again. The other trap is don't think that a weight distribution hitch matters in this calculation. They are necessary for proper towing and weight management, but some people assume that it lowers the tongue weight, that's not what it's meant to do. You should do your calculations assuming you will have a WDH setup but you aren't going to use that to lower any numbers.

A couple things,

• I wouldn’t use a weight distribution hitch with the self-leveling shocks, I don’t think you would want those two systems fighting each other.
• Primarily Loading a trailer over the tandem axles to reduce tongue weight will induce trailer sway…I have been there, done that!
• Remember the max trailer weight for a Telluride with a trailer without brakes is 1650 lbs. So if you are looking for an ultralight trailer make sure it has brakes. Almost all single-axle cargo trailers sold here in the West do not have brakes.

 

[alexdrums]

Do you believe going to 450 or 470 makes a significant difference?

By the way, according to KZ, our current hybrid is 426. It is 23', and 3300.

I don’t think it makes that big of a difference. The Telluride is a solid tow vehicle, and even with 510 lbs of tongue weight would be fine, I think. But as @2020Telly pointed out, as soon as you start loading cargo in the tailgate or trailer it is going to start to push you over that limit.

 

[VinceB]

Talked to the RV dealer this morning. He said that since I'm using a WDH, they can ajust it properly and at the end, being close to the max tongue weight is okay...?

 

[2020Telly]

The WDH is important because it will help your front brakes and tires grip on the Telluride help the rear more by distributing the load to the front axle. So that is good, especially with a FWD biased towing vehicle, but it won't lower the tongue weight. It will just distribute that weight better (if properly configured) which you should do. The challenge is that you are going to have the RV dealer configure the WDH with an empty trailer. Once you add cargo the weight may change some and you may need to adjust it. By comparison, the self-leveling shocks raise the backend but they don't distribute weight off the rear axle to the front like a WDH would. If you don't have the self-leveling shocks then it's not as hard to configure the WDH. But as @alexdrums pointed out the self-leveling and WDH are counteracting each other and heavy towing with both would likely wear down the expensive self-leveling shocks prematurely.

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