Headlight Led Upgrade

Luvcats69 · Dec 7, 2019

Steve in Denver said:
Yeah, they are not perfect, but i haven’t found an obvious alternative in a similar price range. Even higher end halogen bulbs will cost $40 or so, so $90 doesn’t seem as to me for what you get.

the third picture you posted (what you see from the cockpit) looks great to me. So much better than stock.

I understabd what you mean about being too busy/lazy to return them. Time is money.

Just out of curiosity did you mount the new lights where the wire coming out of the light is at the bottom?

GeordieLaforge · Dec 7, 2019

Steve in Denver said:
Yeah, they are not perfect, but i haven’t found an obvious alternative in a similar price range. Even higher end halogen bulbs will cost $40 or so, so $90 doesn’t seem as to me for what you get.

the third picture you posted (what you see from the cockpit) looks great to me. So much better than stock.

I understabd what you mean about being too busy/lazy to return them. Time is money.

I got the Diode Dynamics but they are $150 for the set but much better than anything else I have seen.

JonFar111 · Dec 7, 2019

Steve in Denver said:
After having looked at various light designs available, and the various detailed reviews, I suspect that we are still a generation or 2 away from a true LED replacement for halogens. (One that would have a truly comparable beam pattern). I say this because the way the halogen lamp is designed, light is emitted more or less evenly in a continuous circle (cylinder) from top to bottom and side to side (and everything in between), but the LED replacements typically have a few discrete strips of LEDs pointing in opposing directions.

Some (Like the sealights) are pointed 180 degrees apart(3 and 9 o’clock) which leaves somewhat of a dead spot pointing down (I’m speculating this is the reason for the dark area close to the car). Some position the lights at a ~90 deg angle to each other, so they point more like 4:30 and 7:30. These lights probably do better at filling in the close spots, but I suspect give up illumination on the sides of the pattern.

Maybr someone will design a light that is in between. Lights point at 4 and 8 o’clock, or even 3:30 and 8:30. I suspect subtle differences in pointing (or the light distribution of the individual LEDs) make a big difference in beam pattern.

Maybe the best light will have 3 strips of quality LEDs they point 3, 6, and 9 o’clock? I’m ignoring the 12 o’clock position because I don’t think it contributes much to the beam (it gets clipped?) at least in projector style headlights. Reflectors seem to be a different beast.

Again, this is me speculating more than anything. I don’t have a lot of experience with LED headlights, and although I do have some background in optics I’m not an expert, particularly not in lighting design. So take my musings with a generous amount of salt.

Steve

Good point about aftermarket LEDs not quite there yet. That’s why I went with the Xenon HIDs. Incredibly bright, amazing high beam distance and no dead spots. I do suspect that my next car will have factory LEDs and I also think that the SX LEDs are excellent.

eddieLAX · Dec 8, 2019

I actually had the twelvevolt shop install the led last week. Big difference from some other led recommended on post here. From Amazon. My wife was upset i paid for new lights and installation, once she saw them in the night time. She changed her mind. Lol. I have a quote for aftermarket "fog" lights from them. At about 500$ installed n all. Might consider it. But with the LED from them. It's something i can push back on.

Jasondorin · Dec 8, 2019

Lance said:
I got the LED s from Brett The company name is Twelvolt. I absolutely love my lights now!! The stock ones on my EX where dim and didn’t match the DRLs. If you are second guessing what lights to replace the stock ones don't . I assure you the lights are quality and and supper easy to install. I looked on Amazon like most of us and never was sold on any of the models plus ppl that have bought from Amazon didn’t like there LEDs. I can take more pictures if you guys would like to see how awesome theses lights brighten the way.

You are the second person who quoted bretts company so maybe I’ll try as I need to do something. And it was a simple switch right ?

Lance · Dec 9, 2019

Jasondorin said:
You are the second person who quoted bretts company so maybe I’ll try as I need to do something. And it was a simple switch right ?

It’s literally a plug and play . So if you want me to break down the install it goes something like this. Take the cover off both sides take out the old bulbs by twisting I believe counter clockwise but check on that I’m not 100% on that. Then install new LEDs by finding the the right orientation then twist in tell snug. The wires and harness that come with the set simply tuck them back inside the housing then put the dust cover back on. Done that’s it. The hardest part is getting your hands in the light bulb housing. For me it was a little difficult with big hands.

JoanClaymore · Dec 9, 2019

The only upgrade I suggest to the headlight bulbs are 9011/HIR1 halogen bulbs, not any sort of LED bulb. 9011 bulbs put out 33% more lumens at the same or slightly lesser power consumption as 9005 bulbs.

As far as LED bulbs go, here's a scorecard.

I'll sum it up:

1) 27 out of 27 headlamps with retrofit LED bulbs failed basic photometric testing: too much glare, too little distance illumination, or both. All of the halogen bulbs, however, easily passed photometric testing.

2) 6 out of the 9 LED bulbs tested in a projector headlamp produced too much glare, often at multiple test points (rear view mirror glare, oncoming vehicle glare)

3) 1 of the 9 LED bulbs tested in a projector matched the halogen bulb for distance illumination. The other 8 out of the 9 LED bulbs mostly didn't achieve half the values set by the halogen bulb.

In other words, the probability of the "Sealight 9005 LED bulb" working well (minimizing glare and maximizing distance illumination) would be unprecedented, for one thing. The probability is likely close to 0. The probability of, however, a 9005 --> 9011 bulb conversion working well is 100%, as the 9011 bulb precisely matches a 9005 bulb in the critical dimensions and source image characteristics.

Just to put everything in context: both Americans and Europeans have been working on defining what exactly a valid LED retrofit is for the last several years. The problem isn't as simple as "pick a LED with a row of 3 or 4 chips in a straight line," to say the least

. As a result, any sort of LED bulb on the market today is not standards-compliant, because there are no standards. Perhaps not everyone shares my view, but my view is that running non-standards compliant safety equipment is not the wisest of ideas.

daixloxbmw · Dec 9, 2019

Luvcats69 said:
Just installed the Sealight 3. It's much brighter but the pattern is off and there is a dead spot 10 feet in front middle. I am not completely satisfied for a $90 purchase but I am also very busy and too lazy to return the headlights

I have the same LED bulbs and I also noted the uneven pattern directly in front of the vehicle in this thread.

Cannot stress the importance of Headlight Aim in our Tellurides

Although the dead spot in your pics appear to be worse than mine. From the driver's seat, my beam looks great, very bright and even. It is only when I get out of the vehicle is the splotchiness apparent, which I'm okay with as long as I can't see it while driving. Still worth every penny for this upgrade since stock was so dim.

Steve in Denver · Dec 9, 2019

daixloxbmw said:
Although the dead spot in your pics appear to be worse than mine. From the driver's seat, my beam looks great, very bright and even. It is only when I get out of the vehicle is the splotchiness apparent, which I'm okay with as long as I can't see it while driving. Still worth every penny for this upgrade since stock was so dim.

On mine I can see the dark spot a little bit, but not much. Mostly just when I'm outside of the car. I think the aim height probably has something to do with how much of a dark spot you get - mine is aimed slightly down from the stock position, so that might help bring the dark spot closer to the vehicle. Also I wonder if having fog lights helps fill in that area.

Jasondorin · Dec 9, 2019

Lance said:
It’s literally a plug and play . So if you want me to break down the install it goes something like this. Take the cover off both sides take out the old bulbs by twisting I believe counter clockwise but check on that I’m not 100% on that. Then install new LEDs by finding the the right orientation then twist in tell snug. The wires and harness that come with the set simply tuck them back inside the housing then put the dust cover back on. Done that’s it. The hardest part is getting your hands in the light bulb housing. For me it was a little difficult with big hands.

Thank you!

Jasondorin · Dec 9, 2019

JonFar111 said:
Good point about aftermarket LEDs not quite there yet. That’s why I went with the Xenon HIDs. Incredibly bright, amazing high beam distance and no dead spots. I do suspect that my next car will have factory LEDs and I also think that the SX LEDs are excellent.

Hi Steve, do you have the link to the Xenon lights you purchased, so I can check them out and make sure I am looking at the right ones. I am considering this or the ones available at Twelvolt per the earlier posts. Thanks.

Luvcats69 · Dec 9, 2019

daixloxbmw said:
I have the same LED bulbs and I also noted the uneven pattern directly in front of the vehicle in this thread.

Cannot stress the importance of Headlight Aim in our Tellurides

Although the dead spot in your pics appear to be worse than mine. From the driver's seat, my beam looks great, very bright and even. It is only when I get out of the vehicle is the splotchiness apparent, which I'm okay with as long as I can't see it while driving. Still worth every penny for this upgrade since stock was so dim.

How are your lights mounted? I have the wire end of the light at the bottom when mounted/installed. You the same? Now I'm starting to wonder if I installed the wrong.

Steve in Denver · Dec 9, 2019

I looked at the lights before I installed them, and they are keyed in a similar way to other light types that I have used. There are three key tabs arranged around the perimeter of the round piece that fits into the housing. They aren't all the same size, and I think the spacing is different as well. The tabs have to slot into gaps in the housing (actually I think there was a stamped metal piece at the back of the housing that served this purpose). From what I saw, there is only one way you are able to install the lamp - the keyed parts have to line up with the corresponding slots. You might be able to force it in place with some other wrong configuration, but if it went in easily, it's probably in correctly.

Mine went in with the plug facing down, as I recall.

If anything, you might want to aim the lights slightly lower. Or you could try some of the other bulbs that others are giving high praise. For me the sealight S3 are good enough - I don't need perfect, I just wanted something where I could see the road in front of me, particularly on dark, wet nights.

Let us know if you are able to adjust the lamps or otherwise figure out how to get rid of the dark spot.

Luvcats69 · Dec 9, 2019

Steve in Denver said:
I looked at the lights before I installed them, and they are keyed in a similar way to other light types that I have used. There are three key tabs arranged around the perimeter of the round piece that fits into the housing. They aren't all the same size, and I think the spacing is different as well. The tabs have to slot into gaps in the housing (actually I think there was a stamped metal piece at the back of the housing that served this purpose). From what I saw, there is only one way you are able to install the lamp - the keyed parts have to line up with the corresponding slots. You might be able to force it in place with some other wrong configuration, but if it went in easily, it's probably in correctly.

Mine went in with the plug facing down, as I recall.

If anything, you might want to aim the lights slightly lower. Or you could try some of the other bulbs that others are giving high praise. For me the sealight S3 are good enough - I don't need perfect, I just wanted something where I could see the road in front of me, particularly on dark, wet nights.

Let us know if you are able to adjust the lamps or otherwise figure out how to get rid of the dark spot.

I noticed that the light output doesn't go above a standard sized sedan rear window at stop lights, so I don't think the bulbs are too high, but I do notice that the street signs beyond the curve in the distance are being illuminated, making me feel that the bulbs should maybe be lowered some.

For lowering the lights, is it simply turning the hex screw counter clock wise just a tad? I'm curious if I can lessen the dead spot out front by lowering the lights.

Steve in Denver · Dec 9, 2019

I lowered mine because, even though at a stop light they are not too high, in normal driving the car pitches up and down, so you tend to momentarily direct light at the other drivers. With dim lights, not as big of a deal, but these are bright...so I figured I'd rather be on the safe side.

I forget if it is clockwise or counterclockwise, but yes...just a small turn. I'd go to an open parking lot with a wall/building that you can shine on (I used a car wash - no one there at night) and park the car about 30 feet away. Rotate the hex bolt maybe 1/8 turn...just enough to see that it the lights are pointing slightly lower.

Lance · Dec 9, 2019

Steve in Denver said:
I looked at the lights before I installed them, and they are keyed in a similar way to other light types that I have used. There are three key tabs arranged around the perimeter of the round piece that fits into the housing. They aren't all the same size, and I think the spacing is different as well. The tabs have to slot into gaps in the housing (actually I think there was a stamped metal piece at the back of the housing that served this purpose). From what I saw, there is only one way you are able to install the lamp - the keyed parts have to line up with the corresponding slots. You might be able to force it in place with some other wrong configuration, but if it went in easily, it's probably in correctly.

Mine went in with the plug facing down, as I recall.

If anything, you might want to aim the lights slightly lower. Or you could try some of the other bulbs that others are giving high praise. For me the sealight S3 are good enough - I don't need perfect, I just wanted something where I could see the road in front of me, particularly on dark, wet nights.

Let us know if you are able to adjust the lamps or otherwise figure out how to get rid of the dark spot.

I talked to a professional about how the LEDs work inside the projector , here’s what he said “ppl think that the led chips should be in a 360 all the way around the bulb. It’s the complete opposite!! You want the 3 to 4 small led chips facing at 180 degrees downward. The projector refracts the light from the bottom so you get a nice clean line where the light is projected out onto the road. This is how the projectors were intended to be used. If you have to much light hitting up higher on the projector you get dark spots and a in complete line where the beam stops. For the set I bought from twelvolt has no dark spot and a supper clean line where the beam stops. I hope this helps anyone trying to understand the science involved in the LEDs and projectors.

Steve in Denver · Dec 9, 2019

Lance said:
I talked to a professional about how the LEDs work inside the projector , here’s what he said “ppl think that the led chips should be in a 360 all the way around the bulb. It’s the complete opposite!! You want the 3 to 4 small led chips facing at 180 degrees downward. The projector refracts the light from the bottom so you get a nice clean line where the light is projected out onto the road. This is how the projectors were intended to be used. If you have to much light hitting up higher on the projector you get dark spots and a in complete line where the beam stops. For the set I bought from twelvolt has no dark spot and a supper clean line where the beam stops. I hope this helps anyone trying to understand the science involved in the LEDs and projectors.

That's really interesting. So does that mean that the projector headlights aren't really meant to be used with the standard halogen lamps (since they emit light 360 degrees)?

When you say "3 to 4 small led chips facing at 180 degrees downward" do you mean the LEDs themselves are supposed to point down? If so, I don't think I have seen any that are configured that way - almost all of them point left/right (at least to a large degree)...except for some which appear to have LEDs aimed in a 360 degree pattern.

Hmm.

Jasondorin · Dec 9, 2019

Lance said:
I talked to a professional about how the LEDs work inside the projector , here’s what he said “ppl think that the led chips should be in a 360 all the way around the bulb. It’s the complete opposite!! You want the 3 to 4 small led chips facing at 180 degrees downward. The projector refracts the light from the bottom so you get a nice clean line where the light is projected out onto the road. This is how the projectors were intended to be used. If you have to much light hitting up higher on the projector you get dark spots and a in complete line where the beam stops. For the set I bought from twelvolt has no dark spot and a supper clean line where the beam stops. I hope this helps anyone trying to understand the science involved in the LEDs and projectors.

Yes thanks.

Lance · Dec 10, 2019

Steve in Denver said:
That's really interesting. So does that mean that the projector headlights aren't really meant to be used with the standard halogen lamps (since they emit light 360 degrees)?

When you say "3 to 4 small led chips facing at 180 degrees downward" do you mean the LEDs themselves are supposed to point down? If so, I don't think I have seen any that are configured that way - almost all of them point left/right (at least to a large degree)...except for some which appear to have LEDs aimed in a 360 degree pattern.

Hmm.