Just sat in and turned on the new EV9 GT Line at the dealership - 5 minute impressions

[Wasatch]

First off I've spent limited time in our new Telluride X-PRO SXP (mid Aug delivery) since it's my wife's daily driver. The dealer called and said the Telly license plates were there so I popped in and as luck would have it the EV9 demo has just been dropped of the night before. Could turn on the car but not drive it. We are #3 on the waiting list at the dealer, but I don't think it's worth possibly $30k more that the Telly.

Lightning impressions.
Not that different from the Telluride size wide. Layout is not that different dimensionally.
Right screen is flat not curved which I didn't like as much. Looks nicer ascetically, but not visually from the drivers perspective. Broken up into 3 function screens which was nice.
Ambient lighting is waaaaay better and more noticeable immediately when you get in.
Nappa leather is a nicer seat material in the SXP
Side bolders in front are more narrow and almost too narrow for me (6' 0" 230 lbs) Trunk area is smaller in height because of the battery.
Massaging action from the seats in INSANE and awesome at least in the second row.
Patterns on the speaker grills and other bits are more modern. Other surfaces covered in fabric which is a new fad I guess.
Mesh headrest is ok but I prefer the current tellys.
Headliner material is more basic no where near as nice as the SXP's alcantara.

Verdict - Waiting for the EV9 second gen or Tesla Y second gen.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

First off I've spent limited time in our new Telluride X-PRO SXP (mid Aug delivery) since it's my wife's daily driver. The dealer called and said the Telly license plates were there so I popped in and as luck would have it the EV9 demo has just been dropped of the night before. Could turn on the car but not drive it. We are #3 on the waiting list at the dealer, but I don't think it's worth possibly $30k more that the Telly.

Lightning impressions.
Not that different from the Telluride size wide. Layout is not that different dimensionally.
Right screen is flat not curved which I didn't like as much. Looks nicer ascetically, but not visually from the drivers perspective. Broken up into 3 function screens which was nice.
Ambient lighting is waaaaay better and more noticeable immediately when you get in.
Nappa leather is a nicer seat material in the SXP
Side bolders in front are more narrow and almost too narrow for me (6' 0" 230 lbs) Trunk area is smaller in height because of the battery.
Massaging action from the seats in INSANE and awesome at least in the second row.
Patterns on the speaker grills and other bits are more modern. Other surfaces covered in fabric which is a new fad I guess.
Mesh headrest is ok but I prefer the current tellys.
Headliner material is more basic no where near as nice as the SXP's alcantara.

Verdict - Waiting for the EV9 second gen or Tesla Y second gen.

Thank you for this comparison! Interesting that the massaging seats work better. I guess that's an improvement we'll be seeing across the range of Kia models in the future. I'm sure we'll be seeing more comparisons, especially after first drives, in the not too distant future...

 

[2020Telly]

First off I've spent limited time in our new Telluride X-PRO SXP (mid Aug delivery) since it's my wife's daily driver. The dealer called and said the Telly license plates were there so I popped in and as luck would have it the EV9 demo has just been dropped of the night before. Could turn on the car but not drive it. We are #3 on the waiting list at the dealer, but I don't think it's worth possibly $30k more that the Telly.

Lightning impressions.
Not that different from the Telluride size wide. Layout is not that different dimensionally.
Right screen is flat not curved which I didn't like as much. Looks nicer ascetically, but not visually from the drivers perspective. Broken up into 3 function screens which was nice.
Ambient lighting is waaaaay better and more noticeable immediately when you get in.
Nappa leather is a nicer seat material in the SXP
Side bolders in front are more narrow and almost too narrow for me (6' 0" 230 lbs) Trunk area is smaller in height because of the battery.
Massaging action from the seats in INSANE and awesome at least in the second row.
Patterns on the speaker grills and other bits are more modern. Other surfaces covered in fabric which is a new fad I guess.
Mesh headrest is ok but I prefer the current tellys.
Headliner material is more basic no where near as nice as the SXP's alcantara.

Verdict - Waiting for the EV9 second gen or Tesla Y second gen.

There is an EV9 making the rounds for the dealer tour in my area. Still a month before it makes it to the dealer closest to me. I'm curious, do you recall what the US-spec seating arrangement is? Was it only 6 passenger (2+2+2) or was it 7 passenger? If so, 2+3+2 or 2+2+3 like the Tellurides with captains chairs?

 

[2020Telly]

Nevermind, I see that there is a 6 or 7 seat option and that the 7 is just like the Telluride with 3 in the third row. GT line 0-60 in 4.5 secs Not sure about that super gloss black rear bumper. I don't think it would last a week of use in my household without a huge scratch.

I'm hoping the EV9 RWD standard model has a bigger frunk. I have a Hyundai Ioniq 6 RWD and they put the tiny AWD frunk in the US because of some old trunk safety regulation that if the space is too big they have to add a release from the inside. So instead of a release cable and handle I got this tiny cubby that they put in the dual motor AWD and there is a bunch of lost space underneath. Other countries have a much larger storage in their RWD and the shipping cost from a dealer outside of the US would be cost prohibitive.

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[bruesjoh04]

I'm curious, do you recall what the US-spec seating arrangement is? Was it only 6 passenger (2+2+2) or was it 7 passenger? If so, 2+3+2 or 2+2+3 like the Tellurides with captains chairs?

The third row is only for 2 people (split 50/50).

So your options are 7 passengers with a middle row bench (2+3+2) or 6 passengers with middle row captains chairs (2+2+2).

In the US, the Light and Wind get 7-passenger setups. The Light Long Range, Land, and GT-Line are all 6-passenger.

See the full spec details here.

 

[2020Telly]

The third row is only for 2 people (split 50/50).

So your options are 7 passengers with a middle row bench (2+3+2) or 6 passengers with middle row captains chairs (2+2+2).

In the US, the Light and Wind get 7-passenger setups. The Light Long Range, Land, and GT-Line are all 6-passenger.

See the full spec details here.

Gotcha, so it is more what I suspected, to get to 7 passengers you lose the captains chairs. If you want captains chairs in the second row you have to drop to 6 passenger. The video above looks so similar to my Telluride interior seating I thought maybe they were showing the 7-passenger, but I see now that there is no middle headrest on the third row bench. Even if the price dropped by ALOT, this would be a downgrade for me by losing my preferred seating. Good thing I still love my Telluride.

 

[YEH]

C/D got 240 mi of range (88% of the 270 rating) in their 75 mph highway test, which is better than expected (that's more than what C/D got for the MY which they tested a few years ago).

Drive closer to the typical speed limit or switch to smaller wheels and should get close to the EPA figure; should be able to get, if not surpass it in mixed driving.

The next gen EV9 should be on the new eM platform with a more density rich battery pack.

 

[2020Telly]

C/D got 240 mi of range (88% of the 270 rating) in their 75 mph highway test, which is better than expected (that's more than what C/D got for the MY which they tested a few years ago).

Drive closer to the typical speed limit or switch to smaller wheels and should get close to the EPA figure; should be able to get, if not surpass it in mixed driving.

The next gen EV9 should be on the new eM platform with a more density rich battery pack.

From what I have read, the EPA rating is based on driving a steady 70mph on the highway in normal mode not eco. The E-GMP platform, like most EVs, do better in city traffic or around 50mph. Which is not unlike gas cars that get their best fuel efficiency around 55mph. I have an Ioniq 6 (with smaller wheels) and regularly get over the EPA range. However, after a few weeks of owning an EV my range anxiety is gone. Plugging into my garage for a couple hours or over night a couple times a week is far more convenient than driving to a gas station for me. Now that Kia will be able to charge on the Tesla network and everywhere else, assuming the rapid charging can be done, I’m not worried about the public fast charging options and the options will expand more than new gas stations. 15 min on a fast charger will be easier than finding a gas pump within the next decade. And yes the battery ranges will improve for sure in the next generation. I just hope they can lower the battery manufacturing costs to lower the price.

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[scottw324]

From what I have read, the EPA rating is based on driving a steady 70mph on the highway in normal mode not eco. The E-GMP platform, like most EVs, do better in city traffic or around 50mph. Which is not unlike gas cars that get their best fuel efficiency around 55mph. I have an Ioniq 6 (with smaller wheels) and regularly get over the EPA range. However, after a few weeks of owning an EV my range anxiety is gone. Plugging into my garage for a couple hours or over night a couple times a week is far more convenient than driving to a gas station for me. Now that Kia will be able to charge on the Tesla network and everywhere else, assuming the rapid charging can be done, I’m not worried about the public fast charging options and the options will expand more than new gas stations. 15 min on a fast charger will be easier than finding a gas pump within the next decade. And yes the battery ranges will improve for sure in the next generation. I just hope they can lower the battery manufacturing costs to lower the price.

"I just hope they can lower the battery manufacturing costs to lower the price."

They need to because until an EV is evenly priced with it's ICE counterpart, I won't consider it.

If they are hyping up the "you don't have to get fuel" and "electric is so much cheaper" selling point, but I gotta spend $10K more to get the lowest tier trim, which doesn't meet my needs, which means I have to spend even more......It prices it out. Even with maintenance and fuel cost, I won't spend the difference between equivalent tiered trims, therefore it is a financial loss for me.....in the name of "saving the planet" despite oil-derived products are used in EVs and don't forget the fossil fuel energy source for EVs AND all the strip mining in 3rd world countries (and essentially slave labor to get it).

 

[skeetermx1825]

I'm most interested to see how Kia's "Pay to use it" OTA update program works. From what I've read the EV9 will be the first vehicle in the program. So you pay for new features AFTER you buy the vehicle. Example - Thngs like new headlight patterns, faster acceleration mode, auto parking, etc... Again i'm not 100% sure about the details of this program, but I've read about it in multiple articles about the EV9...

This program has the ability to completely backfire for Kia as they are basically shutting off features that are fully available in the vehicle the day you buy it and then charging you afterwards to simply change a software code 0 to a 1... If a car i'm spending $80k is capable of running a feature the day I buy it, why should I have to pay for it afterwards?

Lastly, are these extra costs a purchase that stays with the vehicle or are they tied to your Kia Connect account and if you sell the EV9 all of those features go away for the new owner? Are they a 1 time purchase or are they a dreaded subscription service?

 

[scottw324]

I'm most interested to see how Kia's "Pay to use it" OTA update program works. From what I've read the EV9 will be the first vehicle in the program. So you pay for new features AFTER you buy the vehicle. Example - Thngs like new headlight patterns, faster acceleration mode, auto parking, etc... Again i'm not 100% sure about the details of this program, but I've read about it in multiple articles about the EV9...

This program has the ability to completely backfire for Kia as they are basically shutting off features that are fully available in the vehicle the day you buy it and then charging you afterwards to simply change a software code 0 to a 1... If a car i'm spending $80k is capable of running a feature the day I buy it, why should I have to pay for it afterwards?

Lastly, are these extra costs a purchase that stays with the vehicle or are they tied to your Kia Connect account and if you sell the EV9 all of those features go away for the new owner? Are they a 1 time purchase or are they a dreaded subscription service?

Subscription-based would be the death of buying a car for features for me. I'll buy a car that meets my minimum requirements and stick with that. Like you said, if I'm spending $50-$80K for a vehicle, I better have all the features available all the time.....without having to pay extra to be able to run my heating/ventilated seats and such.

 

[2020Telly]

"I just hope they can lower the battery manufacturing costs to lower the price."

They need to because until an EV is evenly priced with it's ICE counterpart, I won't consider it.

If they are hyping up the "you don't have to get fuel" and "electric is so much cheaper" selling point, but I gotta spend $10K more to get the lowest tier trim, which doesn't meet my needs, which means I have to spend even more......It prices it out. Even with maintenance and fuel cost, I won't spend the difference between equivalent tiered trims, therefore it is a financial loss for me.....in the name of "saving the planet" despite oil-derived products are used in EVs and don't forget the fossil fuel energy source for EVs AND all the strip mining in 3rd world countries (and essentially slave labor to get it).

I think it's closer than you think. The MSRP for a 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited with minimal options is $37,242. After rebates and discounts I got my 2023 Ioniq 6 SE for $36,500 out the door. When I don't charge for free at work or at the Electrify America stations that are offered for free from Hyundai, I average about 1/3 the cost of what I would have spent on gas. While I can't argue that we haven't tapped enough mines so the ones that are being used are taken advantage of, take a look at the source of the oil we import and the slave labor used to build those cities with oil money. The fuel used in a gas car is the end of the fossil fuel refinement that does irreparable damage all throughout the process. That last step is what just burns away and there is nothing left from a limited resource that took millions of years for us to exploit it. With batteries there are yet to be discovered additional purposes for recycled batteries, they are limited resource because we don't have ways to extract it yet, but the earth has plenty of it and we can find ways to give batteries value as a secondary purpose when they aren't able to be used for vehicles. Some of the minerals have different grade levels and today we can only tap into the highest grades of lithium with the technology we have. But if that improves it's possible that lower grade minerals that are more plentiful could be used.

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[2020Telly]

I'm most interested to see how Kia's "Pay to use it" OTA update program works. From what I've read the EV9 will be the first vehicle in the program. So you pay for new features AFTER you buy the vehicle. Example - Thngs like new headlight patterns, faster acceleration mode, auto parking, etc... Again i'm not 100% sure about the details of this program, but I've read about it in multiple articles about the EV9...

This program has the ability to completely backfire for Kia as they are basically shutting off features that are fully available in the vehicle the day you buy it and then charging you afterwards to simply change a software code 0 to a 1... If a car i'm spending $80k is capable of running a feature the day I buy it, why should I have to pay for it afterwards?

Lastly, are these extra costs a purchase that stays with the vehicle or are they tied to your Kia Connect account and if you sell the EV9 all of those features go away for the new owner? Are they a 1 time purchase or are they a dreaded subscription service?

It might work in the consumers favor if you don't necessarily want or need a feature in that moment, you can add it later. Assuming it works well and predictably. I would guess you can pay for an ongoing subscription or perhaps a lifetime? The car is just becoming a computer on wheels and investors like the idea of recurring revenue post-sale vs. just one-time revenue at the time of purchase. The next gen Android Auto and Apple CarPlay look really interesting. Basically the car is an input to the screens that are customizable by your phone. If you drive in a different car, you can basically plug in your phone and bring your own dashboard display configuration that you are use to.

 

[PittPa]

Bmw is doing this now. Want heated seats, how about $14/mo. Yes, it does sound silly.

 

[scottw324]

I think it's closer than you think. The MSRP for a 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited with minimal options is $37,242. After rebates and discounts I got my 2023 Ioniq 6 SE for $36,500 out the door. When I don't charge for free at work or at the Electrify America stations that are offered for free from Hyundai, I average about 1/3 the cost of what I would have spent on gas. While I can't argue that we haven't tapped enough mines so the ones that are being used are taken advantage of, take a look at the source of the oil we import and the slave labor used to build those cities with oil money. The fuel used in a gas car is the end of the fossil fuel refinement that does irreparable damage all throughout the process. That last step is what just burns away and there is nothing left from a limited resource that took millions of years for us to exploit it. With batteries there are yet to be discovered additional purposes for recycled batteries, they are limited resource because we don't have ways to extract it yet, but the earth has plenty of it and we can find ways to give batteries value as a secondary purpose when they aren't able to be used for vehicles. Some of the minerals have different grade levels and today we can only tap into the highest grades of lithium with the technology we have. But if that improves it's possible that lower grade minerals that are more plentiful could be used.

I provided the below for an approximate equivalent between the EV9 and the Telluride. It is going to be a hard sell for me to spend anywhere from ~$19K to $20.7K more on a vehicle, in the hope of recouping that additional investment through fuel vs electricity savings, and regular maintenance. Maybe.

I mean I average about $38/week for fuel. Times that by 52 weeks in a year, times 10 years of owning the vehicle, bring it to approximately $20K in fuel. Tack on to that 2 oil changes per year at around $80 each (which includes Oil and filter changed, maintenance inspection, Battery/charging system checked, Fluids checked, Tires rotated, Drive belts checked) is another $1,600 over 10 years. I'm sure there are some other maintenance items that will need to be done not covered under warrenty, but I'll skip them for the moment, but I get it, it will add a bit as well.

Suspension and tires will need to be done whether it is an EV or ICE so not factoring that in since they cancel each other out.

And we haven't gotten to charging cost for the EV, which yes is less than fuel, but it is still an expense on top of the ~$20K price increase on the EV over Telluride. Not to mention if the batter has to be replaced and isn't covered, which I don't think is even comparible to replacing an engine if needed (never had to replace an engine in any of my cars). The cost of adding a Level 2 charger at home so you can actually charge it at home. Also the amount of time it takes to charge, if you have to charge it out, which we take long family trips, which will be a factor for us. Time is valuable. The longer the trip takes because I have to charge, means I also not only lose time, but money since I now have to break the trip up into multiple days (e.g., hotel cost = more money). And since EVs aren't paying gas tax, they will probably end up being charged an annual mileage tax, which could be something like $265 - $387 per year (based on approximately 12.5K miles/year). Tack that on.

I take your point of reuseable batteries and that is a pro and all for repurposing things if they can be.

When the EV9 Trims are priced at the same MSRP prices of the Telluride, we can talk. When charging times drop to no more than 5-10 mins, I'll consider, may be I'll be interested. When range is about 400 miles on a single charge, and the other considerations have been addressed, then I'll be interested in purchasing (now if charge times are reduced to 5-10 mins, a 300 mile range may be fine, but while charging times are long, range becomes an issue). For everyday driving around town, EVs work just fine. Longer traveling is where they start falling short and you as the driver have to make compromises.

Until the above is addressed, I'm just exchanging one expense for another....and not always for the better.

EV9 Trim	EV9 MSRP Price	Telluride Trim	Telluride MSRP Price	Price Difference
Light RWD	$ 54,900.00	LX	$ 35,990.00	$ 18,910.00
Light LR RWD	$ 59,200.00	S	$ 37,890.00	$ 21,310.00
Wind e-AWD	$ 63,900.00	EX X-Line	$ 45,885.00	$ 18,015.00
Land e-AWD	$ 69,900.00	SX Prestige X-Line	$ 52,185.00	$ 17,715.00
GT-Line e-AWD	$ 73,900.00	SX Prestige X-Pro	$ 53,185.00	$ 20,715.00

 

[YEH]

^ Not exactly an apples to apples comparison as the EV9 and Telluride not only have different kit levels, but the Wind+ EV9 trims offer more power than what the Telluride currently offers.

The next gen Telluride with either the turbo 6 or the base hybrid should offer equitable power to the Wind+, but probably talking over a $2k price hike for the extra power, so around $48k for the EX X-Line and roughly a $16k price delta.

If wait until US production (including battery) starts, should be eligible for IRA and state subsidies, which could push the difference down to $6k.

Another advantage that the EV9 has over the current Telluride is that small business owners can deduct the maximum amount for depreciation since it meets the GVWR threshold.

From what I have read, the EPA rating is based on driving a steady 70mph on the highway in normal mode not eco. The E-GMP platform, like most EVs, do better in city traffic or around 50mph. Which is not unlike gas cars that get their best fuel efficiency around 55mph.

Yes, but the EPA range figure for EVs is based on mixed driving, so highway range tests would never hit the EPA range figure.

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[2020Telly]

Yes, but the EPA range figure for EVs is based on mixed driving, so highway range tests would never hit the EPA range figure.

True, but EPA range is also calculated using normal drive mode and doesn’t really account for the regenerative braking offered by each EV. I’m in a mix of driving, use ECO mode and have regen on and average 15-20% higher than the advertised EPA range.

 

[2020Telly]

Kia is trying to build affordable EVs at scale to the masses. It doesn’t make sense right now because everything is supply and demand driven. There is a race to deliver larger EV SUVs with three rows at the moment and there are people willing to spend well over $70k on those vehicles. So Kia is pricing just below as a supply and demand reaction to be the affordable option today. The Tesla Model Y is the best selling SUV gas or electric in the US. The EV6 is trying to compete with that, but the EV9 is a more affordable option as a larger 3 row that doesn’t exist today unless you spend close to $100k. A Escalade IQ will start at $130k. The first manufacturer that can get longer range batteries at a lower manufacturing cost will become a contender to Tesla and all these Chinese EV companies that are already growing faster than the US car makers. The struggles of auto workers trying to get more from ICE manufacturing that is just losing margin isn’t going to be an issue in the future. Workers can get more because the cars will be less cost to make and more margin to be had then pricing will drop below the ICE comparable. Then the thought processes and buying decisions will change on a 10-15 minute charge or just charge enough to get home or to another charger at my destination vs pay more at a gas pump and have to wait more than 15 minutes with fewer and fewer gas stations as more close as ICE demand goes down and more charging options pop up.

Here is an interesting read:

Inside Kia’s Ambitious Global Plan To Make "EVs For All"

Kia’s reportedly $30,000 EV2 is just one part of a worldwide electric push with factories everywhere.

insideevs.com

In the 1970s it was muscle cars and gas guzzlers. The US makers didn’t want compact sedans. So other companies perfected it and then the US big three played catch up. Decades later everyone wanted luxury trucks and big SUVs and someone else took over the wagon and minivan market. Which helped those companies eventually compete with affordable family SUVs and the Big 3 were in trouble again. Now the same thing is happening globally with a race to perfect EVs at scale and the Big 3 are going to be behind again. They have the scale but are letting startups and companies based in other countries figure it out in other markets and bring it to the US. Once the Big 3 commit to EVs, the range anxiety, infrastructure upgrade costs and affordability will take care of itself. But as long as they have the supply to feed the demand and they inflate the demand on ICE vehicles they can just delay a change.

The early adopter time frame for EVs is effectively over, they have been around long enough. Once the real-world range improves to over 350mi and the starting price is closer to $40k that would be enough for me to replace my Telluride with an EV9. I think Kia is almost there. In the meantime my Ioniq 6 has replaced my Telluride in preference to drive whenever I can and it’s enough to convince me the eGMP platform and whatever is next from Hyundai or Kia is going to be a first choice option.

 

[cromwelld]

I placed a deposit for an EV9 GT-Line. Pretty excited about what I've seen online, but I haven't seen one in person yet. I also just picked up a 2024 Telluride SX Prestige X-Pro. The EV9 won't replace the Telluride. Seriously considering a Land Rover Defender Outbound though.