Ridiculous $5k upcharge for Nightfall.

[AgostoMortal]

I just had a conversation with a dealer here in Florida, who tells me that over the MSRP they charge $5k over just for the "special edition exclusive nightfall package". I said..but the price is ALREADY built in with the package and color. In what planet do these guys live?! jezz...and then over that taxes, and fees.and so on, and "I don't do OTD price..that is on you" wth!
These old folks are trying to perpetuate an obsolete system that sooner or later has to be eliminated. I'll say this with all the respect for the dealer workers but
why are car sales still allowed to be conducted with such a level of dirty tactics, shady and muddy dealings and lies and misinformation only designed to milk the customer? Aren't these folks aware that ALL the information is a click away? Who wants to feel bad or stressed when buying a car!, No thanks. KIA and all the car manufacturers should change this.
I have been buying cars by making the deal via email for over ten years, relaxed, at home, in my terms, then go to the dealer to pick it up. Thats the only time I step on those establishments. I am not going to change that, a car is a car, a tool, regarless of the color or package and we the customers (the ones that spend the money) should demand that. Every action we take can make a positive impact for everybody else, information is power. Just like this forum.

 

[Kwim]

This is capitalism. Dealers are independent businesses that are created to make a profit. Manufacturers should not change this, but at the state level.

 

[AgostoMortal]

This is capitalism. Dealers are independent businesses that are created to make a profit. Manufacturers should not change this, but at the state level.

I agree to a certain extent, but the manufacturers as the creators of the product should have a heftier responsibility in the process of getting the car in your hands. Buying a house which could be 10 times more expensive and 20 times more complex is at least a clearer process!

 

[2020Telly]

This is not an example of capitalism. This is a free market system. Growing wealth vs an exchange of goods. Capitalism is marking up a Telluride because you have the only one for miles and telling the buyer if they don't like go down the road to the Hyundai dealership to buy a Palisade owned by the same dealer. Free market means it is marked up because someone out there is willing to pay that price based on supply and demand. The same system will lower the price when supply grows and demand starts to lower and the cars are sitting on the lot and they need to sell more of them to make more on volume. The dealers that choose to sell more of them get rewarded with more inventory, that's as fair as it gets. The ones that don't get very many have to make as much as they can on the few that they are allocated.

While not perfect, what is the alternative? A governing authority that can be influenced by lobbyists to set a price for all, or a state level authority that taxes the successful dealerships to subsidize the dealerships that aren't succeeding?

No haggle pricing set by manufacturers has been tried, look at Saturn and Scion. It doesn't work because it doesn't encourage more sales and competitive pricing, the result is that buyers lose out on good products when they don't sell and the brand gets killed.

If you don't want to pay huge mark ups, find a city near you that has a couple or more Kia dealerships and figure out which has the highest volume and start with that one and work you way down until you find something. If you are talking to a dealer that has a huge market up and you recognize it, then they likely don't want to sell to you. They are looking for someone willing to pay more.

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[AgostoMortal]

I know all that, and I know exactly how and where I am going to buy on my terms. I am just surprised that these old folks keep trying to use these old tactics in almost 2021 that is all. Good for them if they find someone willing to pay $5k for a color and package already build into the MSRP price. By the way, my first new car was a Scion and what a great experience buying that car was back in 2005. I don't think they fail because of that. This system is obsolete and it is inevitable that will change, just like combustion engines will disappear, a mater of time.

 

[2020Telly]

I know all that, and I know exactly how and where I am going to buy on my terms. I am just surprised that these old folks keep trying to use these old tactics in almost 2021 that is all. Good for them if they find someone willing to pay $5k for a color and package already build into the MSRP price. By the way, my first new car was a Scion and what a great experience buying that car was back in 2005. I don't think they fail because of that. This system is obsolete and it is inevitable that will change, just like combustion engines will disappear, a mater of time.

I don’t know that it is failing as you suggest. If you make 5,000 on one sale that takes a while to sell but you have no others to sell, in the end it’s like working harder to sell 10 at $500 for the same period of time. That dealer with the markup probably isn’t getting allocated more. But when they do they will lower their price to remain competitive. Why sell one and make $500 and wait for weeks to make another $500?

I loved Scions and Saturns and the pricing model was so nice for buyers. But the incentive to sell more wasn’t there and they weren’t profitable brands for their respective parent companies. Even if demand on a model was high it would not allow for more profit so it assumed volume and demand that could not be sustained.

The system is obsolete when you can buy direct from the manufacturer and negotiate at the same level and you don’t have to worry about all the state and local regulations. When states like California put mandates that all new cars sold will be EVs by 2035 then it will be hard for other states to get allocated and then that system breaks down.

@AgostoMortal I’m with you. I negotiate over email and remain patient. If I go into a dealership it’s to buy not haggle.

 

[vinylhaircut]

Those who are upset by dealer sales tactics might want to consider supporting politicians who advocate for reforming our outdated state dealer franchise laws.

 

[AgostoMortal]

Those who are upset by dealer sales tactics might want to consider supporting politicians who advocate for reforming our outdated state dealer franchise laws.

absolutely

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[Kwim]

I agree to a certain extent, but the manufacturers as the creators of the product should have a heftier responsibility in the process of getting the car in your hands. Buying a house which could be 10 times more expensive and 20 times more complex is at least a clearer process!

Those who are upset by dealer sales tactics might want to consider supporting politicians who advocate for reforming our outdated state dealer franchise laws.

so this is the problem. Dealers buy cars and then can do whatever they want. For example, in my home country, the prices of all dealers are the same, dealers do not buy cars, but receive them for sale. For example, kia costs the same for everyone, and dealers stimulate with gifts at the expense of their profits. Disadvantages of this system: 1 - you cannot get a discount from the recommended price if the representative office does not want it. 2 - takes 2-5 days after payment, since the dealer does not have documents for the cars. 3 - Sometimes a car is sold to several buyers in one day.

 

[dsmclone]

I look at these markups as a positive. My local dealer is one of those that adds a premium so now I know that I won't be using them for service if at all possible.

 

[szillaxl]

Remember when Chrome on a car was a luxury thing. How do they justify charging people more money for replacing Metal with plastic and paint

 

[adona72001]

I was just in a Kia dealership outside of Augusta and they wanted $71K for a Nightfall SV one with a MSRP of $50K

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[12MANY]

Don't blame the dealers; blame the sheep.
No sheeps...no mark-ups.

 

[pnwwarrior]

I agree to a certain extent, but the manufacturers as the creators of the product should have a heftier responsibility in the process of getting the car in your hands. Buying a house which could be 10 times more expensive and 20 times more complex is at least a clearer process!

And that's why I loved every bit of dealing with Tesla! It was one of the best car buying experiences I have been through. Zero hassle - 2 emails, 15 mins at their store and I was out. No surprises, no feeling of "did I get a good deal" and absolutely no stress! I can see why the dealer associations are fighting tooth and nail to keep Tesla out.
At the very least, all the car companies can mandate that dealers can't charge a markup on top of the window sticker. It's a depreciating asset damn it, which will start depreciating the minute you drive off the lot!

 

[xMORTICIANxNightfallxSX]

5k??? Try 12k kia of cerritos on a wolf gray ex nightfall 45k msrp but you can get today @ 57k lmaooo

 

[2020Telly]

And that's why I loved every bit of dealing with Tesla! It was one of the best car buying experiences I have been through. Zero hassle - 2 emails, 15 mins at their store and I was out. No surprises, no feeling of "did I get a good deal" and absolutely no stress! I can see why the dealer associations are fighting tooth and nail to keep Tesla out.
At the very least, all the car companies can mandate that dealers can't charge a markup on top of the window sticker. It's a depreciating asset damn it, which will start depreciating the minute you drive off the lot!

What may work for one niche market will not work for all. Tesla’s strategies are not an affordable option for the masses. Take a looks at a new or used Nissan Leaf and look at the sales compared to a Tesla, the numbers are very comparable to the Model 3 that Tesla admits to losing money on. Once more affordable options hit mainstream dealers, I’m guessing Tesla will have to remain a luxury brand.

The Hummer EV was supposed to have an MSRP just under 80K. Reservations filled up completely in 10 minutes for an average price of $112k. If the CyberTruck from Tesla could markup that much you don’t think they would just set the price to what people will pay? Elon moved to TX because he didn’t want to pay CA taxes, he and the shareholders are interesting in the same thing, maximum profit. The environment is just their schtick.

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[2020Telly]

Don't blame the dealers; blame the sheep.
No sheeps...no mark-ups.

That’s it in a nutshell. The dealers are marking up because someone is willing to cough it up. Once demand equals supply they won’t have those buyers anymore and will come back down to earth.

 

[claybakin247]

I know all that, and I know exactly how and where I am going to buy on my terms. I am just surprised that these old folks keep trying to use these old tactics in almost 2021 that is all. Good for them if they find someone willing to pay $5k for a color and package already build into the MSRP price. By the way, my first new car was a Scion and what a great experience buying that car was back in 2005. I don't think they fail because of that. This system is obsolete and it is inevitable that will change, just like combustion engines will disappear, a mater of time.

This “old folk” agrees with your sentiments regarding these (supposedly) outdated selling tactics. Most of us on this forum abhor them but sadly these tactics are alive and well, as evidenced by the number of buyers caving into them. And they’re not just applied by “old folks” but by salespeople of ALL ages. Your comment is offensive and ageist. If I ever heard one of my 30-something children using this term they’d get a tongue lashing from this old folk. Please remember to respect your elders even if you don’t agree with them.

 

[2020Telly]

To complement the sheep analogy posted earlier, here’s another analogy for you. I like bluefin and I can tell a good from a bad fillet and would pay a slight premium at a restaurant. But if some guy from Japan decides he wants to pay $3M for a 613lb fish because someone will pay more than $5,000 per pound for sushi, he can cut in line in front of me because I don’t see the same value. I’m not going to stop that fisherman from feeding his family.

Commission sales people are just fishermen without a pole and we are their fish. They are looking for a big catch and if you don’t want to bite then don’t. I don’t agree with dishonest tactics like ridiculous addons or bait and switch. But if they are honest and say we marked up the price because demand is high that’s fine by me. I get it.

I recognize that I am lucky because I bought below MSRP in March 2019 before the Telluride popularity took off and not many people knew it was out. But I think Kia’s management knows what they are doing. They may have purposely lowered the MSRP to catch people’s attention and bring in new Kia buyers. Then let the dealerships decide their regional market price. They could have released with a higher MSRP and still done really well just attracted fewer new buyers to the brand by making less of a splash.

 

[2020Telly]

Buying a house which could be 10 times more expensive and 20 times more complex is at least a clearer process!

Does the builder tell a realtor how much to sell the house for? Or the bank what it is worth to finance? The builder just builds the house and takes a cut then maybe supplies a warranty. How complicated the home sale is depends on the local and state laws for buying and selling a house. The process is only complicated if you deal with a shady realtor or broker and when the state (and the DMV) decide to tax you. I’ve lived and purchased homes in several states and I have had vastly different experiences. Sounds almost exactly like car buying especially if you consider a bidding war in a seller’s market. This is just Economics 101, the basic law of supply and demand. (And it’s not capitalism because a free market can also exist in utopian socialism where the government sets a base price and takes a “reasonable” cut then let the people decide what to pay above. That will never truly work because governments always have greedy people running them.)