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Towing tongue weight only 350 pounds?

Does the Palisade have the trailer brake controller or did you install it yourself?
I'm very new to towing and I am very very confused with the Telluride towing package ?
I do not plan to tow a lot.Only a flatbed utility trailer or one of those U-Haul Cargo trailers that we will have to use to haul all of our belongings when me and my family move to a new home.
So my questions are:
1) Do most flat bed trailers and cargo trailers come with a 4 pin connector?
2) How to go about installing or adding a Trailer brake controller if towing more than 1650 lbs,since it is not safe to haul more than that weight without the brake controller?
Also,is the 1650 weight limit the gross or just the trailer weight?


Any help is appreciated.
What can be confusing is that it appears the Kia Telluride manual (even after the 350 to 500 fix is applied) is mixing a spec with a safety recommendation. There is no federal law on towing. What is considered legal and safe varies from state to state. In general, 1,650 lbs with a 500 lb tongue weight will let you pull a utility trailer with modest load or a small boat and that only requires a 4-pin connection in all states. So it appears Kia took the lowest common denominator and built this tow option. Need for 7-pin is determined by whether the trailer has a brake system (more on that below). Many states require by law a trailer brake when you tow over 3,500 lbs., like a small RV travel trailer or pop up or a larger boat. However, some states don’t require a trailer brake until 5,000 lbs or in Massachusetts’ case the law doesn’t require a trailer brake until you hit 10,000 lbs.! So in the case of MA you would be legal to tow up to 5,000 lbs with a 500 lb tongue weight with a 4 pin and and no brake system AND within the Kia spec but apparently beyond Kia’s safety recommendation. However, if you had plates from another state you would be violating their law with no brake system and deemed unsafe.

The general consensus by most states is that a brake is needed at 3,000-3,500 lbs. All this said, do not confuse proper weight distribution or a weight distribution system with needing a brake.

Finding a place to install aftermarket wiring for a 7-pin connection and an aftermarket brake controller is very common if you don’t want to do it yourself. But if you are pulling a small trailer, jet ski, etc you don’t need it because those trailers don’t have brakes.

I get why Kia saved money and effort on designing this option in their California US design HQ . . . because most people don’t buy a midsized SUV to haul trailers all day every day as they are more used for people hauling. The folks that are looking to haul 3,000-5,000 lbs are likely taking RVs or recreational boats and toys but not all the time. So they catered to their most common scenario assuming more serious haulers will have no problem going aftermarket or will buy a larger SUV or Truck. (In my opinion an oversight.). Unfortunately, they misled their buyers a little by advertising a robust towing capability and even marketing with a horse trailer behind, but lacking in an easy way to deliver this from the factory.

I just wish Kia had made the wiring harness plug and play for an easier aftermarket DIY 7-pin connection. UHaul or any RV dealership will usually have services to install if you can’t find a mom and pop place.

Here’s the quickest answer to your question. Based on your usage description you don’t have to spend any more money. UHaul has automatic hydraulic surge brakes on their trailers and don’t require an electric braking system (powered by a 7-pin controller) therefore small UHaul trailers only require a 4-pin connection.

Possible scenarios:

1. Small utility trailer, 4 pin is fine. If you want to rent an enclosed cargo trailer from UHaul, look at how many axles. In general a single axle 4x8 enclosed UHaul will keep you at or under 1,650 lbs while a 5x8 enclosed trailer will still only have a 4-pin and loaded up you will be really close or just slightly over 1,650.

2. But if you bump up to a 5x10 enclosed dual axle UHaul trailer you will still only need the 4-pin and you will be able to carry up to 2,800 lbs. with no brake controller. You will still be legal because UHaul uses an automatic hydraulic surge brake. You will also be within the Kia spec because the trailer has a “brake system.” But you will be paying more for tolls and gas.

3. You bump up to a 6x12 enclosed dual axle UHaul. All the same applies as scenario #2 and you will still be legal towing up to 4,400 lbs because UHaul trailers use automatic hydraulic surge brakes. But with more weight you will spend more on gas and the same on tolls.

4. You buy your own enclosed 5x10 or larger, you buy/rent a small travel trailer, or want to pull a larger boat. Now you should expect to spend a few hundred dollars on 7-pin wiring and a brake controller. These trailers typically require electric braking systems and should to remain safe and legal and within spec.

There is debate online as to whether smaller UHaul cargo trailers are legal in most states because they only require 4-pin and use automatic hydraulic surge brakes. But the way the laws are typically written, the states require brakes on the trailer. It doesn’t specify if they are actively controlled by the vehicle or not. Looking back at Kia’s choice of words I think it was deliberate to say “brake system.” Because that doesn’t directly translate to brake controller unless you are talking about scenario #4 above. So according to Kia’s verbiage you are safe and legal with their tow option if you rent from UHaul. But you have to spend more if you plan to haul a horse trailer as the ads suggest.

With all that said above, I was only referring to the tow “option” (hitch receiver and 4-pin wiring). I am not addressing the tow “package” (tow option with self-leveling shocks). In my opinion the specs do not change. The package is just an added cost for a convenience feature that makes weight distribution more complicated.
 
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What can be confusing is that it appears the Kia Telluride manual (even after the 350 to 500 fix is applied) is mixing a spec with a safety recommendation. There is no federal law on towing. What is considered legal and safe varies from state to state. In general, 1,650 lbs with a 500 lb tongue weight will let you pull a utility trailer with modest load or a small boat and that only requires a 4-pin connection in all states. So it appears Kia took the lowest common denominator and built this tow option. Need for 7-pin is determined by whether the trailer has a brake system (more on that below). Many states require by law a trailer brake when you tow over 3,500 lbs., like a small RV travel trailer or pop up or a larger boat. However, some states don’t require a trailer brake until 5,000 lbs or in Massachusetts’ case the law doesn’t require a trailer brake until you hit 10,000 lbs.! So in the case of MA you would be legal to tow up to 5,000 lbs with a 500 lb tongue weight with a 4 pin and and no brake system AND within the Kia spec but apparently beyond Kia’s safety recommendation. However, if you had plates from another state you would be violating their law with no brake system and deemed unsafe.

The general consensus by most states is that a brake is needed at 3,000-3,500 lbs. All this said, do not confuse proper weight distribution or a weight distribution system with needing a brake.

Finding a place to install aftermarket wiring for a 7-pin connection and an aftermarket brake controller is very common if you don’t want to do it yourself. But if you are pulling a small trailer, jet ski, etc you don’t need it because those trailers don’t have brakes.

I get why Kia saved money and effort on designing this option in their California US design HQ . . . because most people don’t buy a midsized SUV to haul trailers all day every day as they are more used for people hauling. The folks that are looking to haul 3,000-5,000 lbs are likely taking RVs or recreational boats and toys but not all the time. So they catered to their most common scenario assuming more serious haulers will have no problem going aftermarket or will buy a larger SUV or Truck. (In my opinion an oversight.). Unfortunately, they misled their buyers a little by advertising a robust towing capability and even marketing with a horse trailer behind, but lacking in an easy way to deliver this from the factory.

I just wish Kia had made the wiring harness plug and play for an easier aftermarket DIY 7-pin connection. UHaul or any RV dealership will usually have services to install if you can’t find a mom and pop place.

Here’s the quickest answer to your question. Based on your usage description you don’t have to spend any more money. UHaul has automatic hydraulic surge brakes on their trailers and don’t require an active braking system (driven by a 7-pin controller) therefore small UHaul trailers only require a 4-pin connection.

Possible scenarios:

1. Small utility trailer, 4 pin is fine. If you want to rent an enclosed cargo trailer from UHaul, look at how many axles. In general a single axle 4x8 enclosed UHaul will keep you at or under 1,650 lbs while a 5x8 enclosed trailer will still only have a 4-pin and loaded up you will be really close or just slightly over 1,650.

2. But if you bump up to a 5x10 enclosed dual axle UHaul trailer you will still only need the 4-pin and you will be able to carry up to 2,800 lbs. with no brake controller. You will still be legal because UHaul uses an automatic hydraulic surge brake. You will also be within the Kia spec because the trailer has a “brake system.” But you will be paying more for tolls and gas.

3. You bump up to a 6x12 enclosed dual axle UHaul. All the same applies as scenario #2 and you will still be legal towing up to 4,400 lbs because UHaul trailers use automatic hydraulic surge brakes. But with more weight you will spend more on gas and the same on tolls.

4. You buy your own enclosed 5x10 or larger, you buy/rent a small travel trailer, or want to pull a larger boat. Now you should expect to spend a few hundred dollars on 7-pin wiring and a brake controller. These trailers typically require active braking systems and should to remain safe and legal and within spec.

There is debate online as to whether smaller UHaul cargo trailers are legal in most states because they only require 4-pin and use automatic hydraulic surge brakes. But the way the laws are typically written, the states require brakes on the trailer. It doesn’t specify if they are actively controlled by the vehicle or not. Looking back at Kia’s choice of words I think it was deliberate to say “brake system.” Because that doesn’t directly translate to brake controller unless you are talking about scenario #4 above. So according to Kia’s verbiage you are safe and legal with their tow option if you rent from UHaul. But you have to spend more if you plan to haul a horse trailer as the ads suggest.

With all that said above, I was only referring to the tow “option” (hitch receiver and 4-pin wiring). I am not addressing the tow “package” (tow option with self-leveling shocks). In my opinion the specs do not change. The package is just an added cost for a convenience feature that makes weight distribution more complicated.
That makes a lot more sense to me now.Like I said I'm pretty new to towing and you response was very thorough and easy to understand.
Thanks again @NCTelly
 
That makes a lot more sense to me now.Like I said I'm pretty new to towing and you response was very thorough and easy to understand.
Thanks again @NCTelly
I spent a lot of time fretting over this and this forum was a tremendous help while the Kia manual misled me into thinking I was bamboozled. Glad if I can help make sense for future owners.
 
Did anyone else notice the red ribbon title on the outside of the envelope:
1579454325526.webp

Emissions Recall?????
 
Ha. Now that you mention it I did notice it but forgot after reading the letter inside. Maybe they had a bunch of old envelopes sitting around.
 
Did anyone else notice the red ribbon title on the outside of the envelope:
View attachment 5913

Emissions Recall?????

Really glad you mentioned this. I got my Informed Delivery scan that this was on the way but it never arrived, and Kia didn't know what I was talking about when I called asking about an emissions recall. Thanks!
______________________________
 
I got a camper that says 3500 with a 400 tongue not including 2 batteries and to full propane tanks. I did alot of research and this would be the easiest set up to get going. Including switching the 4 pin to 7, trailing braking system and wd say control hitch. Curt 57672 7 pin wiring, curt 51180 Echo little expensive but way easier then running a bunch of wires and going through fire wall box, you just have run 1 12 gauge to the battery and the rest is wireless and runs if a smart phone and for wd sway control the best i found if you need it is
Fastway e2 Weight Distribution w/ 2-Point Sway Control - Round - 6,000 lbs GTW, 600 lbs TW - FA94-00-0600, really easy set up. I'm sure you can do alot of research but this is what recommend for fastest easiest install all around the board.
 
I got a camper that says 3500 with a 400 tongue not including 2 batteries and to full propane tanks. I did alot of research and this would be the easiest set up to get going. Including switching the 4 pin to 7, trailing braking system and wd say control hitch. Curt 57672 7 pin wiring, curt 51180 Echo little expensive but way easier then running a bunch of wires and going through fire wall box, you just have run 1 12 gauge to the battery and the rest is wireless and runs if a smart phone and for wd sway control the best i found if you need it is
Fastway e2 Weight Distribution w/ 2-Point Sway Control - Round - 6,000 lbs GTW, 600 lbs TW - FA94-00-0600, really easy set up. I'm sure you can do alot of research but this is what recommend for fastest easiest install all around the board.

Great post and detailed information. That should help a lot of folks. Thanks.
 
I own a telluride but didn’t get this letter. Any idea why?

Three possibilities come to mind:
1. Have you moved after buying the Telly?
2. Did you provide them with your home address when you bought it?
3. Did you buy it after the update had already made it into the printed manual. (Check yours, maybe a sticker isn't needed)

Just guesses, of course./
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this is a very useful thread, thanks for the info. We are in researching exactly this question - can we use Telluride to pull 4400 lb trailer for Colorado-Califorinia roadtrip. Seems we have 1500 lb for people and cargo which is plenty for us on paper, but would it be too hard on the car and no margin for error?

@mikeg112, I'm curious what you decided and if you have experimental data how things worked out - can you please share your experience? How much were you able to tow and how did the car perform?
 
this is a very useful thread, thanks for the info. We are in researching exactly this question - can we use Telluride to pull 4400 lb trailer for Colorado-Califorinia roadtrip. Seems we have 1500 lb for people and cargo which is plenty for us on paper, but would it be too hard on the car and no margin for error?

@mikeg112, I'm curious what you decided and if you have experimental data how things worked out - can you please share your experience? How much were you able to tow and how did the car perform?
You have an excellent question drsasha, I ended up getting the Palisade which has the same chassis and engine capacity, and we purchased a 2019 Coachmen Apex Nano 193BHS, unloaded its 3,500 and with a full load we are at 4,100 lbs. I’ll be upfront and honest, I do enjoy towing, and with the HDA, lane following and auto cruise control it tows wonderfully on a flat highway. But I do feel it and the engine revs whenever you’re going up a hill. I also considered getting a trailer in your range but please for the safety of your family, don’t look at the unloaded weight and make your buying decision based on that. My max rated capacity including payload is 4,700 lbs, we only pack 1/2 capacity to 4,100 lbs to make sure we have 80% towing headroom. Plus you don’t want to have the insurance deny your claim due to an overloaded trailer.
Try to look for an ultra lite trailer, and look at max loaded capacity. Your tongue weight also gets deducted from your telluride payload capacity as well, something to keep in mind. But the trailer was worth the investment for us! It came in handy for us being able to safely vacation and be socially distant from others :). Also make sure to get a weight distribution setup, I would recommend the Andersen 3380 setup 👍🏻
 
thanks very much for the quick and detailed reply, @mikeg112 !
And congrats on making awesome purchases, glad it worked out well for you!
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But I do feel it and the engine revs whenever you’re going up a hill.
Not sure about the Palisade manual, but it has been pointed out on this Telluride forum that the Telluride has the following warning: "Do not use the air conditioning while using your vehicle to tow uphill. Due to higher load during trailer usage, overheating might occur on hot days or during uphill driving."
 
We are in researching exactly this question - can we use Telluride to pull 4400 lb trailer for Colorado-Califorinia roadtrip. Seems we have 1500 lb for people and cargo which is plenty for us on paper, but would it be too hard on the car and no margin for error?

1500 lbs for people and cargo:
1. Double check the specs for your particular model / configuration. I don't recall the numbers, but I think the cargo capacity varies a fair amount across the models. (like maybe 1250-1500)
2. I use the GVWR - curb weight to determine payload capacity, and I believe that's the "official" way...however the owner's manual specifies a different (and lower) amount of payload capacity based on number of seating positions. It's ridiculous as I recall. like 150 per seating position + 150 lbs or something like that. (why should a 7 seat configuration be able to hold less weight than an 8?). I mention this because although the GVWR-curb weight is probably what matters (don't forget to obey the individual axle weight limits), "manufacturer instructions" generally trump anything else, so if you get in a wreck some lawyer somewhere will argue that the lower number is what matters. I think it's idiotic that Kia included those numbers in the instruction manual when they don't jibe with the GVWR etc... I digress.
3. Whatever number you determine is right, note that it includes all the weight, including tongue weight...so if you have 1400 lbs of cargo capacity, and 400 lbs of tongue weight...you are left with 1000 lbs to work with for passengers, cargo, additional equipment...


As far as towing in the Rockies / Sierras...I have done it a good bit with a 2500 lb trailer and ~800 lbs of people and gear in the vehicle. It was pretty easy, even over some pretty steep/long mountain passes. However, adding 2000 lbs to your total vehicle weight will surely add some strain. No personal experience doing that with the Telluride, but I'd be pretty comfortable doing it if I took it slow. Maybe keep it at 30 MPH up a steep grade? Use a low gear when descending. Don't get complacent.
 
You have an excellent question drsasha, ....... for us being able to safely vacation and be socially distant from others :). Also make sure to get a weight distribution setup, I would recommend the Andersen 3380 setup 👍🏻
I have a 2021 Telly with tow package and a No Bo 19.5 TT on order. The Andersen WDH and Curt Echo seems to solve towing issues... until I saw the Autowbrake.com add on this blog. The brake controller mounts on the RV , setup once and you got brakes! $325. Anyone have experience with this one?? Thanks
MikeG112 Your rig looks nice with the Andersen. The wheel confused until I zoomed in.😎
 
I have a 2021 Telly with tow package and a No Bo 19.5 TT on order. The Andersen WDH and Curt Echo seems to solve towing issues... until I saw the Autowbrake.com add on this blog. The brake controller mounts on the RV , setup once and you got brakes! $325. Anyone have experience with this one?? Thanks
MikeG112 Your rig looks nice with the Andersen. The wheel confused until I zoomed in.😎
Nice set up with the No Bo, just curious if you received it yet and how its towed? Im looking at a similar set up.
 




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