Very limited visibility on dark roads

[2020Telly]

People are complaining about beam cutoffs above due to the fact they’ve never own a car with projector headlights before? All projectors have cutoffs. There is some light above the cutoff to illuminate signs on the road.

I agree the cutoff exists using any bulb it’s just more noticeable in some. My other car has a projector housing that scored high on the IIHS test and it also has a cutoff. But I noticed that my eyes tend to see more of the dark contrast when you have more amber bulbs (like the ones that come with the Telluride LX, S and EX).

For anyone not looking to jump to an LED or install an HID you may want to consider a cooler light using a regular halogen bulb as a quick and even temporary fix. These Philips or GE bulbs are a whiter light than the Telluride OEMs and won’t break the bank: Philips CrystalVision 9005 or GE Nighthawk Platinum 9005 The reviews are an interesting read. (The color is not as white as you could get with LED or HIDs, but in my opinion it may offer a better option than the stock Kia’s that come from the factory.)

If you have the same experience as me, with the whiter light, the cutoff will still be there but your eyes will perceive the whiter light as brighter and the cutoff will not be as noticeable as the more amber bulb resulting in a safer feeling drive at night.

If you are as curious as I am about this you can google something like: “perceived brightness vs luminance”. Luminance is how all these bulbs are measured, but it turns out our eyes perceive different colors of light as different brightness so it’s really hard to objectively compare different bulbs that measure the same when the colors are different because the way each individual sees the brightness makes you feel like something that actually scored the same offers better illumination. (Somewhere here is an idea for an NGTV episode of Brain Games.)

 

[Mhdecoys]

I would trust the IIHS over you, and the IIHS disagrees. And their testing process is incredible.

Whatever you believe is fine with me, GEAR_HEAD. I know what I know, the lights on the SX prestige are the worst I have ever had on a vehicle.

 

[Tellthemride]

Whatever you believe is fine with me, GEAR_HEAD. I know what I know, the lights on the SX prestige are the worst I have ever had on a vehicle.

@Mhdecoys Can you provide an explanation why you think it’s the worst? Or is this just a subjective opinion? Can you provide and example of what mainstream car has better headlights? I know the luxury brands have crisper beam patterns, but It’s not fair to compare those.

 

[2020Telly]

@Mhdecoys Can you provide an explanation why you think it’s the worst? Or is this just a subjective opinion? Can you provide and example of what mainstream car has better headlights? I know the luxury brands have crisper beam patterns, but It’s not fair to compare those.

I wonder if it’s somehow tied to preference for the shine that the daytime running lights give for the amber SX vs the white for all others? Too bad we can’t test the bulb in the housing with the daytime lights off.

______________________________

 

[GabeBKlyn]

Whatever you believe is fine with me, GEAR_HEAD. I know what I know, the lights on the SX prestige are the worst I have ever had on a vehicle.

Anecdotal of course but I can say that the SX LED’s are head and shoulders better than the lights on my 2011 Sienna I just sold and better than any other car I’ve driven in recent memory. No comparison and they actually provide additional light in NYC where everything is already lit by streetlights. My concern is more whether they are blinding to pedestrians and other cars but they do seem angled downwards to compensate.

In my old car, I would sometimes find myself double checking whether the lights were on in the city. In the SX, it’s obvious and striking how much better the lights are. Perhaps you have some sensitivity to the bright white light that the LED’s provide? Otherwise, I can’t take your comment too seriously.

 

[Mhdecoys]

@Mhdecoys Can you provide an explanation why you think it’s the worst? Or is this just a subjective opinion? Can you provide and example of what mainstream car has better headlights? I know the luxury brands have crisper beam patterns, but It’s not fair to compare those.

The heavy dark shadow line is about 5 feet off the ground and creates a black space over half of the field of view the the width of the beam.

 

[2020Telly]

The heavy dark shadow line is about 5 feet off the ground and creates a black space over half of the field of view the the width of the beam.

I don’t have an SX, but I think I know why the perceived line exists in most modern projector housings with bulbs that use whiter light. I say perceived because there is illumination above the line it just feels less present because below the line the white is perceived much brighter. I think this is known as perceived brightness as opposed to luminance. If you had a projector housing with a yellow or amber halogen bulb the line would be less pronounced but the area below that line would not feel as bright. In my honest opinion I think this this is a good thing for two reasons, 1. if the brightness was uniform you would be creating more glare and then not see anything above that line that you see as black space, 2. you would be blinding the cars in front of you. If you go to a very dark road on a dark night, try turning on low beams on an older car and identify the furthest tree or object you can. Then go to the same spot with your Telluride SX on low beam and see if you can see that same object (and possibly further). If you can, then it's probably not as black as you think and you are getting illumination with no glare. I honestly didn't believe it myself either until I ran a test with my projector housing on my S and tried different bulbs and even different vehicle. I had readings of illumination at 100', 200' and 300' and even when I thought the white light bulbs I put in weren't going to be as bright, I was actually able to read my phone and the paper I was writing on better than when I didn't use white bulbs and had the amber/yellowish halogen bulbs I tested.

 

[Tellthemride]

@Mhdecoys are you talking about a separation between the beams on the floor? There are actually two low beams in the SX headlamp. One that points forward and one that points lower towards the floor. So maybe you are thinking there is an obstruction in between, but it’s just because it’s two separate beams of light that don’t completely overlap. There is also a fog light that would increase the lower visibility and width of the beam if you turn it on.

It’s likely they include the lower aiming beam because the SUV sits high and common projector beam patterns are only half of an oval, which would not reach the floor.

Also, you still haven’t answered which car you are claiming has a better light output.

______________________________

 

[Mhdecoys]

@Mhdecoys are you talking about a separation between the beams on the floor? There are actually two low beams in the SX headlamp. One that points forward and one that points lower towards the floor. So maybe you are thinking there is an obstruction in between, but it’s just because it’s two separate beams of light that don’t completely overlap. There is also a fog light that would increase the lower visibility and width of the beam if you turn it on.

It’s likely they include the lower aiming beam because the SUV sits high and common projector beam patterns are only half of an oval, which would not reach the floor.

Also, you still haven’t answered which car you are claiming has a better light output.

View attachment 6710

Your photo shows the line that is annoying, it is cutting the whole top off that car off, that's what I don't like, terrible set up. What if there was a traffic sign in this shadow?.....you would not see it.
As far as the car that has better lighting, I can only say, that my F 150, the Jeep Grand Cherokee , the cobra, and the Navigator my friend has all have better lights than the Telluride that we bought. Love it just not the lights.

 

[Tellthemride]

@Mhdecoys yes, unfortunately that is the way all modern headlamps are made these days. Projector headlamps give a much more even spread of light on the road ahead of you compared to old reflector headlights. Maybe you are just too familiar with the reflector beam pattern (hopefully which was not fitted with HID aftermarket bulbs) and you still need time getting used to the new projector beam pattern. The point of not having light shine on the top half of the car ahead of you is so you don’t blind them. There is some light being shined above that cutoff line, but it is at a much lower output. One way you can see this is if you drive up to a wall or garage door at about 5 feet away, you will see two small rectangles above the cutoff, these are the “squirrel finders” that help light up road signs. Or next time you are near a street sign at night, pull over and turn your low beams on and off. I’m sure you will see that the reflection from the signs are brighter with the low beams on.

Some more info on projectors if you are interested. What Are Projector Headlights?

Overall, the SXP has very excellent light output when comparing to other halogen or hid headlamps in the competitor cars. But if you don’t like projector style headlamps to begin with, I guess you will be disappointed.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the cars you listed have reflector headlamps like the ones below. If you were to test any of them against the distance the the SXP can reach with its headlights, I’m sure the SXP will win.

 

[SVoigt]

Tested out my lighting for the first time since getting my EX. All in all, not that bad. Better than my stock lights on my old 2007 Tahoe, almost as good as the replacement HID projector lights I installed in it a little over a year ago. I don't find them unsafe, would I like to see them a little cooler white and a bit brighter? Yup, sure would, but they light up the roadway just fine.

 

[wcarlson40]

Tested out my lighting for the first time since getting my EX. All in all, not that bad. Better than my stock lights on my old 2007 Tahoe, almost as good as the replacement HID projector lights I installed in it a little over a year ago. I don't find them unsafe, would I like to see them a little cooler white and a bit brighter? Yup, sure would, but they light up the roadway just fine.

Agreed, I just took delivery of my EX last night!! After following this thread, I was dreading the night-time visibility. I have to say, the stock EX Halogens really aren't that bad. Way better than my 2014 Jeep Wrangler that I came from...
I almost ordered LEDs for my Telluride before I even got my vehicle. Glad I didn't...

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[Dave Fingers]

Yes, they are very different. BTW, LEDs also have a sharp cut off. This is from my experience with rental cars. The KT may be different.

Projector style can come in two ways from the factory, incandescent and HID. It was previously used primarily with HIDs but many manufacturers started putting in regular halogen bulbs instead of HID. Now most manufacturers have moved from HIDs to LEDs but the use of halogens remain.

Had HID been installed from the factory, since they did not install LEDs in all trims, I think most people would have been happy. Instead, they chose the cheapest route. It’s strange that they did that since they are touting the virtues of their safety technology that come standard on all trims.

My guess is that the 2021 models will all get LEDs. Unfortunately, you and I will have to go after market. My motivation for changing to LED was to match the DRL. I was ok with the brightness of the halogen.

I recently bought an 2021 SX with Prestige and Nightfall and found an issue with the headlights as well. I took the car to the mountains of Georgia this weekend and driving in the backroads was very bad. Both side to side and height were terrible and couldn't see very well. If it was an IHS safety issue from the 2020 model I would think they would have addressed it. Not happy and will call the service dept tomorrow.

 

[Senator20]

I think the headlights are amazing. No need to use the high beams either. If you want light down low you will need fog lights. Even driving on roads surrounded be trees and no street lights I have no problems or complaints.

 

[Sportshot2]

Your photo shows the line that is annoying, it is cutting the whole top off that car off, that's what I don't like, terrible set up. What if there was a traffic sign in this shadow?.....you would not see it.
As far as the car that has better lighting, I can only say, that my F 150, the Jeep Grand Cherokee , the cobra, and the Navigator my friend has all have better lights than the Telluride that we bought. Love it just not the lights.

For me my 2019 F150 XLT low beams sucked. I can understand why, they used bulbs built for longevity not maximum brightness. It is necessary to drop the inner fender liner to remove them, it sucks to have to do some much work to change a bulb. I did it because I found the stock Halogens to be terrible. I went with LED bulbs from Amazon and although the beam is not As perfect On the drivers side the LED’s were a huge improvement.

I had the same trouble on a 2009 Chevy Avalanche LTZ with the running light. Dealer wanted $110 to replace it. Lots of that vintage GM products have lights burnt out because of that reason.

I saw a few videos on you tube by Headlight Revolution that test numerous bulbs and recommends best options. I ended up buying LED bulbs for the Ford off Amazon That were a great improvement and I wasn’t willing to spend as much money as the best option they recommended

 

[2020Telly]

If it was an IHS safety issue from the 2020 model I would think they would have addressed it. Not happy and will call the service dept tomorrow.

The IIHS ratings were focused on the 2020 model and the SX with stock LED headlights scored the highest, while the other 2020 trims (LX, S, and EX) had halogens and scored lowered. In 2021 Kia added stock LED to both EX and SX, with halogens still in the LX and S. Ref: 2020 Kia Telluride 4-door SUV

I think there was a technical service bulletin on this forum about correcting or adjusting the SX LEDs. That might help your situation.

For 2021 LX and S owners you are in the same boat as 2020 LX, S, EX owners if you don’t like the stock halogens in the stock projector housing these are the options:
- buy a better halogen
- buy a retrofit LED bulb
- upgrade to HID
- find a way to buy all the parts from the Kia factory LED headlights and electronics and swap which might not be easy

I’m a little skeptical about the IIHS ratings on modern headlights at the moment. Their headlight test and ratings only started in 2016 and the LED technology moves really fast. So if they were measuring expected performance using 2016 halogen projector bulb measurements it’s possible they were measuring for different things that don’t apply to LED technology. I know some people will disagree with me stating that the IIHS measurements determine if there is a 5 lux or higher at a given distance and it doesn’t matter with the bulb, but I can stare at a filament based amber halogen bulb with a higher lux measurement and then stare at an LED bulb with cooler light slightly lower lux rating and I will tell you LED is brighter to me and it illuminates more of the surrounding area. It could be my eyes or my brain tricking me but I use both when driving at night.

Consider this quote from Diode Dynamics “Lux is not a good measurement for automotive use, because automotive housings are designed for use with incandescent bulbs, which evenly distribute light in all directions.” Ref. LED Brightness

I remember shopping for a flat screen when plasmas were all the rage and LEDs had just come out. I recall sales people saying that plasma was the best and LEDs were just cheaper but read one article that said LED technology would some day replace plasma as it was superior in terms of upside. But in the plasma days people were measuring televisions compared to CRT tube TVs talking about the color depth and contrast. Now you can’t buy a plasma because they consume too much electricity, are heavy, more prone to failure and put off too much heat and LED TVs are the standard.

While IIHS is changing future ratings I don’t know that they go back and retest. Here’s a link to their methodology: Headlights are still an afterthought on many vehicles. My concern is that the IIHS headlight ratings carry too much weight to them. If switching a bulb dramatically changes the performance than I wish someone rated aftermarket bulbs.

Seeing that IIHS rates at a distance of about 325ft straight ahead and different distances on the side, I personally tried a few different bulbs in my S light housing and found that even better halogens made a difference in my level of comfort for visibility at night. I also found I am partial to a brighter “cool” light over amber at night. The stock halogens on the Telluride were only a little better than the cheapest halogens I found. I’m still very pleased with my Twelvolt wedge style LED retrofit. They appear to provide just enough illumination inside the projector housing to reflect back the right amount of coverage without blinding oncoming traffic, no dark spots and they haven’t broken the bank.

______________________________

 

[JonFar111]

The IIHS ratings were focused on the 2020 model and the SX with stock LED headlights scored the highest, while the other 2020 trims (LX, S, and EX) had halogens and scored lowered. In 2021 Kia added stock LED to both EX and SX, with halogens still in the LX and S. Ref: 2020 Kia Telluride 4-door SUV

I think there was a technical service bulletin on this forum about correcting or adjusting the SX LEDs. That might help your situation.

For 2021 LX and S owners you are in the same boat as 2020 LX, S, EX owners if you don’t like the stock halogens in the stock projector housing these are the options:
- buy a better halogen
- buy a retrofit LED bulb
- upgrade to HID
- find a way to buy all the parts from the Kia factory LED headlights and electronics and swap which might not be easy

I’m a little skeptical about the IIHS ratings on modern headlights at the moment. Their headlight test and ratings only started in 2016 and the LED technology moves really fast. So if they were measuring expected performance using 2016 halogen projector bulb measurements it’s possible they were measuring for different things that don’t apply to LED technology. I know some people will disagree with me stating that the IIHS measurements determine if there is a 5 lux or higher at a given distance and it doesn’t matter with the bulb, but I can stare at a filament based amber halogen bulb with a higher lux measurement and then stare at an LED bulb with cooler light slightly lower lux rating and I will tell you LED is brighter to me and it illuminates more of the surrounding area. It could be my eyes or my brain tricking me but I use both when driving at night.

Consider this quote from Diode Dynamics “Lux is not a good measurement for automotive use, because automotive housings are designed for use with incandescent bulbs, which evenly distribute light in all directions.” Ref. LED Brightness

I remember shopping for a flat screen when plasmas were all the rage and LEDs had just come out. I recall sales people saying that plasma was the best and LEDs were just cheaper but read one article that said LED technology would some day replace plasma as it was superior in terms of upside. But in the plasma days people were measuring televisions compared to CRT tube TVs talking about the color depth and contrast. Now you can’t buy a plasma because they consume too much electricity, are heavy, more prone to failure and put off too much heat and LED TVs are the standard.

While IIHS is changing future ratings I don’t know that they go back and retest. Here’s a link to their methodology: Headlights are still an afterthought on many vehicles. My concern is that the IIHS headlight ratings carry too much weight to them. If switching a bulb dramatically changes the performance than I wish someone rated aftermarket bulbs.

Seeing that IIHS rates at a distance of about 325ft straight ahead and different distances on the side, I personally tried a few different bulbs in my S light housing and found that even better halogens made a difference in my level of comfort for visibility at night. I also found I am partial to a brighter “cool” light over amber at night. The stock halogens on the Telluride were only a little better than the cheapest halogens I found. I’m still very pleased with my Twelvolt wedge style LED retrofit. They appear to provide just enough illumination inside the projector housing to reflect back the right amount of coverage without blinding oncoming traffic, no dark spots and they haven’t broken the bank.

Great analogy @NCTelly. I can only hope that my Kia with its sweet HID installation / bulbs last as long as my 14 year-old Visio plasma TV. I want a new LED TV, but that darned Visio simply will not die! <

 

[maridi]

sx lights are not any better!

They aren't? That is news to me. I am ordering an SX, because of the LED lights, but would prefer just the EX with the bench seat. I hope I am not making a mistake.

 

[maridi]

Tested out my lighting for the first time since getting my EX. All in all, not that bad. Better than my stock lights on my old 2007 Tahoe, almost as good as the replacement HID projector lights I installed in it a little over a year ago. I don't find them unsafe, would I like to see them a little cooler white and a bit brighter? Yup, sure would, but they light up the roadway just fine.

Does that include dark, winding roads? Also, you didn't get EX Premium, right?

The IIHS ratings were focused on the 2020 model and the SX with stock LED headlights scored the highest, while the other 2020 trims (LX, S, and EX) had halogens and scored lowered. In 2021 Kia added stock LED to both EX and SX, with halogens still in the LX and S. Ref: 2020 Kia Telluride 4-door SUV

I think there was a technical service bulletin on this forum about correcting or adjusting the SX LEDs. That might help your situation.

For 2021 LX and S owners you are in the same boat as 2020 LX, S, EX owners if you don’t like the stock halogens in the stock projector housing these are the options:
- buy a better halogen
- buy a retrofit LED bulb
- upgrade to HID
- find a way to buy all the parts from the Kia factory LED headlights and electronics and swap which might not be easy

I’m a little skeptical about the IIHS ratings on modern headlights at the moment. Their headlight test and ratings only started in 2016 and the LED technology moves really fast. So if they were measuring expected performance using 2016 halogen projector bulb measurements it’s possible they were measuring for different things that don’t apply to LED technology. I know some people will disagree with me stating that the IIHS measurements determine if there is a 5 lux or higher at a given distance and it doesn’t matter with the bulb, but I can stare at a filament based amber halogen bulb with a higher lux measurement and then stare at an LED bulb with cooler light slightly lower lux rating and I will tell you LED is brighter to me and it illuminates more of the surrounding area. It could be my eyes or my brain tricking me but I use both when driving at night.

Consider this quote from Diode Dynamics “Lux is not a good measurement for automotive use, because automotive housings are designed for use with incandescent bulbs, which evenly distribute light in all directions.” Ref. LED Brightness

I remember shopping for a flat screen when plasmas were all the rage and LEDs had just come out. I recall sales people saying that plasma was the best and LEDs were just cheaper but read one article that said LED technology would some day replace plasma as it was superior in terms of upside. But in the plasma days people were measuring televisions compared to CRT tube TVs talking about the color depth and contrast. Now you can’t buy a plasma because they consume too much electricity, are heavy, more prone to failure and put off too much heat and LED TVs are the standard.

While IIHS is changing future ratings I don’t know that they go back and retest. Here’s a link to their methodology: Headlights are still an afterthought on many vehicles. My concern is that the IIHS headlight ratings carry too much weight to them. If switching a bulb dramatically changes the performance than I wish someone rated aftermarket bulbs.

Seeing that IIHS rates at a distance of about 325ft straight ahead and different distances on the side, I personally tried a few different bulbs in my S light housing and found that even better halogens made a difference in my level of comfort for visibility at night. I also found I am partial to a brighter “cool” light over amber at night. The stock halogens on the Telluride were only a little better than the cheapest halogens I found. I’m still very pleased with my Twelvolt wedge style LED retrofit. They appear to provide just enough illumination inside the projector housing to reflect back the right amount of coverage without blinding oncoming traffic, no dark spots and they haven’t broken the bank.

I wish the LED's were stock in the EX, but you have to get the premium package and that takes away the bench seat. :-(

 

[Tellthemride]

They aren't? That is news to me. I am ordering an SX, because of the LED lights, but would prefer just the EX with the bench seat. I hope I am not making a mistake.

Never a mistake getting an SX. The issue that Telly owner had was he didn’t like the headlight beam cutoff of prevalent in modern car designs. Modern LED headlights (like ones on the SX) are so much brighter and can shine much further down the road compared to halogen that it gives the illusion there is less/no light being shined higher than the trunk/hood of of a car driving in front of you. But it is in fact illuminating road signs, just enough so that you don’t blind oncoming traffic.