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EV9

I wonder if the same debates were made when jet propulsion replaced propeller driven aircraft in the 50s. It was only 40 years prior that we proved humans could fly using wood constructed aircraft and then it took less than 2 decades after jets to make it to the moon. The point being, you can't make an argument against tomorrow by using technology from the past if we are constantly innovating. There is no more innovation to be done with the internal combustion engine. But battery technology is improving at rate never really seen before. EVs are expensive because of those batteries, but we can lower the cost of those batteries by adding new domestic mining and manufacturing and continuing innovation of the technology. Then by finding ways to repurpose the batteries for some other common good we create new markets and uses along with lowering the cost to consumers. If batteries become more efficient to make and you can repurpose them as a home backup, hospital emergency backup, nursing home energy power because range isn't an issue but capacity is enough to recycle for some other purpose then you create a secondary market for used EV batteries because they now have value and someone will try to profit. Then when used EV batteries can be safely added in buildings to store power we can find smarter ways to lessen the demand on the grid. How many gas powered generator systems could be replaced with new innovation? What can you do with a used internal combustion engine other than sell it for parts or drop it into another gas burning vehicle?

Some car manufacturers are gambling on solid state EV batteries which aren't susceptible to weather, last longer, weigh less, and charge much faster which also means you can increase capacity and range without any temperature penalties. There are no EVs running with those types of batteries today, but when the largest companies in the world are trying to solve this problem so that they can make a profit, I have to believe it's not that far into the future. We aren't there yet, but I say, let free market capitalism dictate what consumers want rather than listen to the talking heads influenced by oil execs that want us to keep paying at the pumps. I don't think states have to mandate EV vs ICE sales. I think if the product is good and the other interests are out of the way enough people will tell manufacturers what they want with their money. Kia is probably betting on the adoption of EVs being faster so they want to be there when it happens and leading the pack rather than late to the party.
 
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innovation is good...it's also necessary and won't ever stop...all i'm saying is EV's are not there yet...and forcing it on people by stopping the sale of ICE cars in a few years is not a good idea cause you're not giving people options...what if we run into limiting factor with EV's like running out of certain minerals for the batteries or needing to upgrade the electric grid...they are already telling people in CA not the charge their cars and have brown outs...probably a part of the reason why they are hemorrhaging residents and companies who are fleeing to less confining states...

i really want to drive a tesla cause the instant torque and speed sounds fun...i'm actually waiting for electric motorcycles to get cheaper and the ranges to get longer...once i can pull a battery and bring it into work (without pulling a muscle) to charge during the day and ride home i would be all over that...sounds like a blast...until the tech gets better i'll wait...i'm not an early adopter of things until all the issues are ironed out and there's still a ways to go in the EV department...but they are constantly improving which is exciting

 
innovation is good...it's also necessary and won't ever stop...all i'm saying is EV's are not there yet...and forcing it on people by stopping the sale of ICE cars in a few years is not a good idea cause you're not giving people options...what if we run into limiting factor with EV's like running out of certain minerals for the batteries or needing to upgrade the electric grid...they are already telling people in CA not the charge their cars and have brown outs...probably a part of the reason why they are hemorrhaging residents and companies who are fleeing to less confining states...

i really want to drive a tesla cause the instant torque and speed sounds fun...i'm actually waiting for electric motorcycles to get cheaper and the ranges to get longer...once i can pull a battery and bring it into work (without pulling a muscle) to charge during the day and ride home i would be all over that...sounds like a blast...until the tech gets better i'll wait...i'm not an early adopter of things until all the issues are ironed out and there's still a ways to go in the EV department...but they are constantly improving which is exciting


I don't disagree with anything you are saying. I'm just suggesting that innovation should also come with us changing our mindset rather than continuing to see things in the same way. While I agree that CA is doing it wrong, CA accounts for a disproportionate amount of our GDP. So just like China influences the global car market because they buy nearly double the amount of new cars than the US does per year, CA being just one of 50 states accounts for over 14% of the US annual GDP, we can't ignore the policies even if we don't agree with them because they have a very real impact. China's EV adoption will have even more influence on the US car market than what California does. Tesla and Ford are big exporters to China and GM manufacturers in China. Just this past year Ford sold more Lincoln's in China than in the US and at one point GM was going to kill the Buick brand but they didn't because they were selling well in China. So as China's moves policies in favor of EVs, Kia and Hyundai will be looking to have a foothold there as well. At the same time, we can't ignore the very real influence that oil companies have on policies and the direction of car companies. If GM had been allowed to continue with the promising innovation of the EV1 program from the 90s imagine how much further along EVs would be. Oil companies want the status quo and they want to invest in pipelines and expanding our reserves so that we can be dependent on the oil and gas infrastructure.

I look at people charging their EVs during a brown out no differently than the Colonial Pipeline hack creating mass hysteria and being out of gas for 10 days because people don't get the big picture and rushed to the pumps to take all the fuel for themselves. We are conditioned to think about power for our vehicles of needing to be within range of a gas station and filling up whenever we want, but in reality if you leave your house topped off on a charge, you will need a public charging station less and less. Before people had solar and alternative power, power companies had grid constraints when too many people ran their AC which was at the hottest parts of the day when the sun was the brightest. But now the impact on the grid and offset has changed with solar and the peak usage times and risks of brownouts are for different reasons so we have to look at things differently and adapt. I remember 5 years ago the EV haters talking about hurricane evacuations and how people will be stranded in their EVs. But Tesla sent out an emergency update allowing the range to be extended beyond their standard, which was then 200 to 250miles. And after thinking about, when you have a lot of traffic and people evacuating, gas powered cars are screwed if the gas stations are closing because you are idling and not as fuel efficient when driving slowly in stop and go. EVs thrive in this situation because they basically don't use any battery when stopped in traffic. So your range in an EV could have been more if you couldn't find a gas station with fuel and didn't have a full tank. Now before a hurricane no one mentions EVs being stranded.

To me investing in new mining in the US makes a lot more sense than investing in more pipelines and adding to our oil reserves because one keeps us energy independent and allows us to use reusable minerals. While the other refines a limited resource that has a byproduct of plastic to sell us water bottles that the same oil companies make while telling us that plastic recycling is working while it all ends up in a landfill. ExxonMobil is the largest producer of single use plastic. Ads responsible for the myths of plastic recycling were largely funded by oil companies.

Find a cheap kick scooter and swap the lead acid batteries with a lithium phospate pack. It will be a cheap way to start to enjoy the potential before an electronic motorcycle gets in your range.
 
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I don't disagree with anything you are saying. I'm just suggesting that innovation should also come with us changing our mindset rather than continuing to see things in the same way. While I agree that CA is doing it wrong, CA accounts for a disproportionate amount of our GDP. So just like China influences the global car market because they buy nearly double the amount of new cars than the US does per year, CA being just one of 50 states accounts for over 14% of the US annual GDP, we can't ignore the policies even if we don't agree with them because they have a very real impact. China's EV adoption will have even more influence on the US car market than what California does. Tesla and Ford are big exporters to China and GM manufacturers in China. Just this past year Ford sold more Lincoln's in China than in the US and at one point GM was going to kill the Buick brand but they didn't because they were selling well in China. So as China's moves policies in favor of EVs, Kia and Hyundai will be looking to have a foothold there as well. At the same time, we can't ignore the very real influence that oil companies have on policies and the direction of car companies. If GM had been allowed to continue with the promising innovation of the EV1 program from the 90s imagine how much further along EVs would be. Oil companies want the status quo and they want to invest in pipelines and expanding our reserves so that we can be dependent on the oil and gas infrastructure.

I look at people charging their EVs during a brown out no differently than the Colonial Pipeline hack creating mass hysteria and being out of gas for 10 days because people don't get the big picture and rushed to the pumps to take all the fuel for themselves. We are conditioned to think about power for our vehicles of needing to be within range of a gas station and filling up whenever we want, but in reality if you leave your house topped off on a charge, you will need a public charging station less and less. Before people had solar and alternative power, power companies had grid constraints when too many people ran their AC which was at the hottest parts of the day when the sun was the brightest. But now the impact on the grid and offset has changed with solar and the peak usage times and risks of brownouts are for different reasons so we have to look at things differently and adapt. I remember 5 years ago the EV haters talking about hurricane evacuations and how people will be stranded in their EVs. But Tesla sent out an emergency update allowing the range to be extended beyond their standard, which was then 200 to 250miles. And after thinking about, when you have a lot of traffic and people evacuating, gas powered cars are screwed if the gas stations are closing because you are idling and not as fuel efficient when driving slowly in stop and go. EVs thrive in this situation because they basically don't use any battery when stopped in traffic. So your range in an EV could have been more if you couldn't find a gas station with fuel and didn't have a full tank. Now before a hurricane no one mentions EVs being stranded.

To me investing in new mining in the US makes a lot more sense than investing in more pipelines and adding to our oil reserves because one keeps us energy independent and allows us to use reusable minerals. While the other refines a limited resource that has a byproduct of plastic to sell us water bottles that the same oil companies make while telling us that plastic recycling is working while it all ends up in a landfill. ExxonMobil is the largest producer of single use plastic. Ads responsible for the myths of plastic recycling were largely funded by oil companies.

Find a cheap kick scooter and swap the lead acid batteries with a lithium phospate pack. It will be a cheap way to start to enjoy the potential before an electronic motorcycle gets in your range.
i agree and i'm excited to see how things develop with EVs...just don't want states forcing anything...be smart and ease into this...

i sold all my motorcycles due to lack of riding time but i do still own a gas 125cc scooter to rip around town on that gets 90+ mpg and can probably hit about 60mph...if i can find a similar small footprint electric motorcycle i may go that way...or i have heard that suron electric bicycles can be modded to higher than stock speeds...or maybe a ktm duke 390 would be a fun small cc bike to rip on

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i agree and i'm excited to see how things develop with EVs...just don't want states forcing anything...be smart and ease into this...

i sold all my motorcycles due to lack of riding time but i do still own a gas 125cc scooter to rip around town on that gets 90+ mpg and can probably hit about 60mph...if i can find a similar small footprint electric motorcycle i may go that way...or i have heard that suron electric bicycles can be modded to higher than stock speeds...or maybe a ktm duke 390 would be a fun small cc bike to rip on

Google this and watch some YouTube videos: “reddydy 6000w 60v electric scooter”. Looks like cheap fun.
 
The batteries are like gremlins though...if the housing gets compromised and it gets wet...boom goes the dynamite

Ipx-5 rated. But yeah I get the point. You could say the same about the lithium battery in most modern smartphones if the battery is compromised it will catch fire. It doesn’t stop people from using them. That video used the example of a rechargeable lithium Energizer AA battery which are also readily available in homes. (Fuel is also highly flammable with just a spark.)

1664541109992.png
 
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My brother in law works as a lawyer for an oil refinery. In our chats about EVs and hybrids versus ICE vehicles he has some very unique views, although not without just reason. The company he works for is actively searching for places they can add solar farms so that their market can include those who value greener energy sources. Likewise the filling stations they own are being retrofit with EV charging stations because they know that, in order to stay competitive and have a long term business model, they must sell petroleum products of all sorts AND they must offer EV solutions, whether they really want to or not. They already offer battery-powered bikes that are publicly accessible for rent.

He hails from a larger city where EV usage is inherently smoother to manage than out in the boonies of the country. When he came to visit us here in central NH where the EV grid is lightyears behind places like Cali, he was shocked he wasn't seeing many. When I took him with me on a hunt for charging stations he quickly... after 30 minutes of driving... realized how big the gap is between ICE vehicles and EVs. That is precisely where we have the issues still. Sure I could buy an EV if I could afford it, but I would still be using my electricity to charge it as basically the sole source of power for the vehicle (never mind the fact the electric company was just approved to double their rates for us). Being in the boonies I have little to no space for solar, and where I could put solar is blocked out by trees that are not on my property. Does it make sense to buy an EV when electricity rates are rocketing higher and their sources are still largely from less-than-green sources? My point is I do think there is a future for EVs, probably in my future as I'm not 40 yet and have hopefully 40+ years of driving ahead of me, but it's not for everyone and it's not necessarily right now. I am happy to hear some oil companies are trying to broaden their markets they won't be pushing the same old oil agenda when global markets inevitably make a shift from ICE to EV.
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Does it make sense to buy an EV when electricity rates are rocketing higher and their sources are still largely from less-than-green sources?

So when the electric company decides to charge you at a time of use rate when they can charge more at certain times of day (peak rate times that they decide and vary based on the time of year) you will pay more with absolutely no control. If you could charge batteries in your home in a backup battery pack (or a bidirectional EV) during the lower rate periods, you could then supplement (or run your entire house) during the high peak rates while also reducing a strain on the grid. Wouldn't your bills go down even without solar? Not to mention if you lose power in a rural area you don't need a gas powered generator so think of not having to wait in line with cans of gas to get you through the outage. My utility company is starting a pilot program where they are giving rebates to Ford F150 Lightning drivers who agree to connect their trucks to the grid at home during high usage periods. I'm sure you had the same technology adoption challenges in your rural areas when it came to cell phone coverage and high speed internet.

If you take the green benefits out of it, we still have a disproportionate dependency on foreign oil because we consume more than we can produce and even if we produced more domestically it's still not enough, the oil reserves we have will always go to keeping critical organizations fueled for national defense, heating people's homes and the last thought is dropping our fuel prices at the pump by a few cents. Solar by itself is not the solution just as a few EVs being sold is not the solution. It's a collective macroeconomic and environmental problem. While often improperly compared to each other the pollution generated by ICE vehicles is different than the type of pollution by energy plants. But none of these will make a big of difference if we don't offset with volume. Having a more stable power grid helps EVs, but it more importantly helps hospitals, schools, nursing homes, etc. Oil is not going away, but we have to diversify with safe nuclear and battery technology and we need to start mining untapped reusable mineral sources in the US. Otherwise, we will be importing expensive minerals and consumers will continue to be more susceptible to world events. Instead of lining the pockets in other countries for oil we will be lining the pockets in other countries for oil and lithium, and US consumers will have to pay more regardless. Why not get our oil consumption where we are no longer importing and then find other domestic sources of energy that have multiple uses so we aren't so dependent on other countries? I think investing in the charging infrastructure will likely start in the areas that are first seeing the largest demand in EVs first then along the major throughfares which is probably why I see plenty of Teslas along 89, 91, and 93 when driving through New England. But if your state doesn't have as many registered EVs it will likely move slower in the rural parts. This website shows the public charging stations by state based on registered EVs The Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Station Report | United States North Dakota is doing great! But they only have 220 registered electric vehicles so they don't need as many right now because adoption is not as high. As more large car manufacturers move to EVs there will be more affordable options, and yes, that means fewer ICE options, but that is free market capitalism without influence from the oil industry. Let car manufacturers sell what people want as consumers tell them what they want to buy. ICE vehicles had a monopoly for a long enough time, it's time to have more options. You can look at the history of transportation over the last 100 years and see that there have been many promising attempts at mass adoptions of alternative fuel vehicles and every single one has died mysteriously. The demand is all boiling up to now and oil companies are going to have to give up some market share and pivot to something else or lower their profit margins.

The company he works for is actively searching for places they can add solar farms so that their market can include those who value greener energy sources.
They are smart to do that as their carbon offset taxes are probably going to be looked at pretty hard if they don't.

I am happy to hear some oil companies are trying to broaden their markets they won't be pushing the same old oil agenda when global markets inevitably make a shift from ICE to EV.
I hope you are right, but I suspect that battery and new EV manufacturer startups that aren't dependent on big oil aren't as easily influenced. So I'm guessing plenty of money is going into slowing down the free market adoption of EVs by US consumers so that oil companies can take their time figuring out their next move.
 
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Solar by itself is not the solution just as a few EVs being sold is not the solution. It's a collective macroeconomic and environmental problem. While often improperly compared to each other the pollution generated by ICE vehicles is different than the type of pollution by energy plants. But none of these will make a big of difference if we don't offset with volume. Having a more stable power grid helps EVs, but it more importantly helps hospitals, schools, nursing homes, etc. Oil is not going away, but we have to diversify with safe nuclear and battery technology and we need to start mining untapped reusable mineral sources in the US. Otherwise, we will be importing expensive minerals and consumers will continue to be more susceptible to world events. Instead of lining the pockets in other countries for oil we will be lining the pockets in other countries for oil and lithium, and US consumers will have to pay more regardless. Why not get our oil consumption where we are no longer importing and then find other domestic sources of energy that have multiple uses so we aren't so dependent on other countries?

I agree with most of this. None of the "green" aspects are going to make a big difference if places like China, India, and other developing countries aren't in on it. Why would a country that's trying to just get into the first world care if the oil they use to do it produces more carbon? The other thing is we might move further away from "energy" dependence but not from "transportation" dependence. There's a reason we don't mine lithium here. Or the rare earth materials used for the construction of motors themselves. It's filthy. And China doesn't care so they do it. And the rest of the world is dependent.

I'm all about nuclear, especially with elements like thorium that can't be refined into weaponized grades (I think, last I checked). It is really the only reliable, renewable energy source at our disposal. There is so much good stuff out there in nuclear but societies are hooked on solar and wind, which take massive amounts of land and often fail us. Why states like California and countries like Germany would opt to close nuclear facilities, at times like these especially, makes little sense to me. Anyway our current grid, especially if it relies on solar and wind, can't handle rapid EV adoption. Ahem....California?
 
I placed my 2023 Tellurude order in March but haven’t got a status on where I am in line. I am estimating Dec 2022 for delivery. Now with the EV9 for sale second half of 2023, I’m wondering if it’s better to wait or just get the Telluride and resell it when the EV9 comes. But are people still interested in buying second hand gas cars when everything is moving to electric? Is there any wait list for the EV9 yet?
Range for ev9 makes it a nonstarter in the USA
 
Range for ev9 makes it a nonstarter in the USA
max range approx. 300 miles?...a tesla model 3 long range awd has a range of 358 miles
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max range approx. 300 miles?...a tesla model 3 long range awd has a range of 358 miles
It's that the base models are terrible. No towing and 220 miles? You gotta pay up to get anything useful. They can only do this because the competition is nil or super expensive.

The time isn't right to buy an electric SUV. Need more competition. I think we are at least a few years away yet before it becomes a good solution rather than a pricey toy.

Maybe they can't make the numbers work but imagine if they had 350 miles range for the base model + 3000lb towing? That would sell like hotcatkes.
 
It's that the base models are terrible. No towing and 220 miles? You gotta pay up to get anything useful. They can only do this because the competition is nil or super expensive.

The time isn't right to buy an electric SUV. Need more competition. I think we are at least a few years away yet before it becomes a good solution rather than a pricey toy.

Maybe they can't make the numbers work but imagine if they had 350 miles range for the base model + 3000lb towing? That would sell like hotcatkes.
gotcha...i think the sweet spot is hybrids and plug in hybrids right now
 
EV9 specs are underwhelming. Add to the fact it will be "EV-like" with looks/controls/etc. and not a Telluride and I will pass.

This coming from a guy who is EV crazy and owned four Mach-Es, four Teslas, etc. over the last 2 years. Kia should make a Telluride PHEV first then expand that to full EV after.
 
EV9 specs are underwhelming. Add to the fact it will be "EV-like" with looks/controls/etc. and not a Telluride and I will pass.

This coming from a guy who is EV crazy and owned four Mach-Es, four Teslas, etc. over the last 2 years. Kia should make a Telluride PHEV first then expand that to full EV after.

Sorry, gonna have to ask this.

Why four Mach-Es, four Teslas, etc. over the last 2 years? That is a lot of vehicles in a short time span in a bad automobile market between availability, supply chain issues, dealer markups, etc.

I would prefer a hybrid Telluride over PHEV Would rather have the electric motor/batter augment the engine extending the mpg versus having to remember to plug the damn thing in for the relatively short range it would have in all electric, then have only gas afterward. I'm thinking of long drives from PA to Myrtle Beach or NC from time to time, which the PHEV would be useless in that case to me, where as the hybrid much more useful.
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Why four Mach-Es, four Teslas, etc. over the last 2 years? That is a lot of vehicles in a short time span in a bad automobile market between availability, supply chain issues, dealer markups, etc.
He prolly sold each and every one of them for more than he had paid during that crazy time. Win! Win!

Full on EVs still have a long way to go. When they are easily $20k more than an equivalent gas car, it's going to take years and years before that gets evened out, then the need to stop and charge for half an hour or more when you can simply fill up for all of 5 minutes and go, plus all the untold environmental damages from the mining and processing of these minerals to make these batteries....
 
EV9 specs are underwhelming. Add to the fact it will be "EV-like" with looks/controls/etc. and not a Telluride and I will pass.

This coming from a guy who is EV crazy and owned four Mach-Es, four Teslas, etc. over the last 2 years. Kia should make a Telluride PHEV first then expand that to full EV after.
PHEV like the rav4 prime or volvo recharge series and I'm in. Got the Telluride because of the space and the bang for buck.
 
He prolly sold each and every one of them for more than he had paid during that crazy time. Win! Win!

Full on EVs still have a long way to go. When they are easily $20k more than an equivalent gas car, it's going to take years and years before that gets evened out, then the need to stop and charge for half an hour or more when you can simply fill up for all of 5 minutes and go, plus all the untold environmental damages from the mining and processing of these minerals to make these batteries....
This. Rumor is a loaded EV9 is going to be $73,000 and change. They have to get the prices under control before EVs take off, and greatly improve the infrastructure with regards to charging stations. We’re a ways away from both of those…
 
Sorry, gonna have to ask this.

Why four Mach-Es, four Teslas, etc. over the last 2 years? That is a lot of vehicles in a short time span in a bad automobile market between availability, supply chain issues, dealer markups, etc.

I would prefer a hybrid Telluride over PHEV Would rather have the electric motor/batter augment the engine extending the mpg versus having to remember to plug the damn thing in for the relatively short range it would have in all electric, then have only gas afterward. I'm thinking of long drives from PA to Myrtle Beach or NC from time to time, which the PHEV would be useless in that case to me, where as the hybrid much more useful.

With Teslas and Mach-E.. I basically traded around trims Model Y, Model 3 RWD, etc. Same with the Mach-E.. I had a Standard Range and it sucked and so I ordered an Extended Range and GT Performance with no markup. I basically was able to swap cars for no loss in 2021 and 2022... and try them all out. I've had two EVs in the garage for most of the last two years and dumped my last Tesla in November.

Mazda CX-90 PHEV sounds the most interesting. I had a RAV4 Prime briefly (this is what I traded the Mach-E Standard Range for) but I disliked the noisy/buzzy gas engine and harsh Toyota ride so that was traded for the Telluride (probably the best car/SUV I've owned) that's a silent couch on wheels. The Telluride definitely needs some hybrid power because at low speeds (which EVs and PHEVs excel at) it's a bit lacking in power/smoothness.
 




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