Kia Telluride Vs GV80

[kane]

Is leasing better than owning?

 

[SorentoSXL]

X5 is nowhere near 100k with options. A well optioned x7 is around 90k.

when I saw the pricing i was shocked because I believe they priced themselves out of the market give the relative lack of cache in the Genesis name.

I just optioned a X5 xDrive 40i to $87,480 without accessories. That's the turbo 6 model. The V8 is even higher. So, I'm not sure what your point of reference is. GV80 IS competitively priced.

 

[OaktownACE]

I just optioned a X5 xDrive 40i to $87,480 without accessories. That's the turbo 6 model. The V8 is even higher. So, I'm not sure what your point of reference is. GV80 IS competitively priced.

I just drove the X5, X7, XC90 and GLS before deciding on the Telluride. Optioned well the X5 was around 72. The X7 was 90 with a healthy options list. The XC90 was eliminated pretty quick from our list but it was mid 50s optioned. The GLS was around the X7.

In most people’s eyes the Genesis is a really nice Hyundai. It doesn’t have the cache yet to command a premium. They are clearly charging a premium price. Unless the reviews are Telluride-like, the car is not going to sell without a discount.

I’m not trying to be rude about it but the pricing struck me as out of whack with what the brand could command on the top end. The starting price is pretty appropriate but the fully optioned car is too high.

 

[SorentoSXL]

I just drove the X5, X7, XC90 and GLS before deciding on the Telluride. Optioned well the X5 was around 72. The X7 was 90 with a healthy options list. The XC90 was eliminated pretty quick from our list but it was mid 50s optioned. The GLS was around the X7.

In most people’s eyes the Genesis is a really nice Hyundai. It doesn’t have the cache yet to command a premium. They are clearly charging a premium price. Unless the reviews are Telluride-like, the car is not going to sell without a discount.

I’m not trying to be rude about it but the pricing struck me as out of whack with what the brand could command on the top end. The starting price is pretty appropriate but the fully optioned car is too high.

We'll agree to disagree. A loaded GV80 is $15-20k less than an X5 with similar equipment levels. It's a luxury SUV and luxury SUVs are on fire now. This will be Genesis' largest selling model more than likely and it will put them on the map by keeping the brand afloat.

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[YEH]

I think the wild success of the Telluride and Palisade May have caused them to overprice the GV80 a bit. Yeah, it starts at 49K, but that means you’re getting a 4 cyl. engine, two rows, leatherette seating, and a mostly analog gauge cluster. The base doesn’t even have ventilated seats or wireless charging. You don’t get the good stuff until you add the Advance or Prestige packages, which, with AWD, take you well above 60K.

Considering the lack of features on the base, I think they should have started at about 45K, and topped out around 67K or 68K all in.

The RX350L starts at $47.3k (granted w/ a NA V6), but the GV80's interior is a good bit more luxurious (much better design as well).

The outgoing G80 starts at $42.5k; the new model likely will start at around $47k.

I think it may be a hard sell, especially given how much car you get with the loaded Telluride/Palisade models for about 48K (if you can find them).

Top spec Telluride/Palisade buyers are, for the most part, a diff. sort of buyer.

If Genesis come out w/ a GV90 (which think they will eventually do), the price disparity will only increase and there will be buyers willing to pay it.

My take is that they’re about $3-5K higher than they should be in the middle and upper option packages. The price is solidly in GLE and X5 territory and far exceeds MDX territory. Ultimately I don’t care about MSRP, I care about leases. Current Genesis leases are lackluster and if this can’t compete with MDX and XC90 leases, people will stick with X5 and GLEs.

Genesis should have offered more flexibility in the packages (such as not tying AWD w/ all the other stuff).

These days, the top spec Telluride and Palisade are more MDX/RX-L competitors.

As for leasing, lease rates for Genesis are not going to be nearly as aggressive as for BMW and MB (even Audi has a difficult time competing against them on lease rates).

In most people’s eyes the Genesis is a really nice Hyundai. It doesn’t have the cache yet to command a premium. They are clearly charging a premium price. Unless the reviews are Telluride-like, the car is not going to sell without a discount.

I’m not trying to be rude about it but the pricing struck me as out of whack with what the brand could command on the top end. The starting price is pretty appropriate but the fully optioned car is too high.

We'll agree to disagree. A loaded GV80 is $15-20k less than an X5 with similar equipment levels. It's a luxury SUV and luxury SUVs are on fire now. This will be Genesis' largest selling model more than likely and it will put them on the map by keeping the brand afloat.

Based on what I have seen, comparably equipped (can't get the exact same options to match) - the GV80 is about $10k less than the X5, which is about where the pricing should be (the Telluride is not even a nice Kia, and look how the pricing for it has ended up).

Also wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of incentive to start (or within a couple of months of launch) as automakers have to match what competitors are doing (even for new models) w/ a few exceptions.

 

[Average Joe]

I just drove the X5, X7, XC90 and GLS before deciding on the Telluride. Optioned well the X5 was around 72. The X7 was 90 with a healthy options list. The XC90 was eliminated pretty quick from our list but it was mid 50s optioned. The GLS was around the X7.

In most people’s eyes the Genesis is a really nice Hyundai. It doesn’t have the cache yet to command a premium. They are clearly charging a premium price. Unless the reviews are Telluride-like, the car is not going to sell without a discount.

I’m not trying to be rude about it but the pricing struck me as out of whack with what the brand could command on the top end. The starting price is pretty appropriate but the fully optioned car is too high.

Interesting take. Do you think the same applies to their sedans?

 

[YEH]

^ The bigger problem is that the vast majority of people still don't know that Genesis exists.

The Aviator starts at $51.1k (granted, for the T6) w/ pricing going all the way up to $87.8k for the Black Label Grand Touring.

Even the BL is a good bit more than the top spec GV80 at $77.7k.

The Cadillac XT6 starts at $52.7k and that's for a model where many reviewers have stated, why not just get a loaded Telluride? (The XT6, nonetheless, is still superior to the RX-L).

A fully-loaded XT6 is around $75k.

The pricing for the GV80 is fine.

Can't set the price too much lower than the competition, otherwise the thinking will be that it really doesn't belong as a competitor or that they must've cut corners to get the price that low.

 

[Average Joe]

^ The bigger problem is that the vast majority of people still don't know that Genesis exists.

The Aviator starts at $51.1k (granted, for the T6) w/ pricing going all the way up to $87.8k for the Black Label Grand Touring.

Even the BL is a good bit more than the top spec GV80 at $77.7k.

The Cadillac XT6 starts at $52.7k and that's for a model where many reviewers have stated, why not just get a loaded Telluride? (The XT6, nonetheless, is still superior to the RX-L).

A fully-loaded XT6 is around $75k.

The pricing for the GV80 is fine.

Can't set the price too much lower than the competition, otherwise the thinking will be that it really doesn't belong as a competitor or that they must've cut corners to get the price that low.

True. It’s not like they could price it the same, or lower, than athe Palisade/Telluride. I would like to get back to the SX-P comparison versus the $48,900 base model. Looking forward to a side-by-side comparison of features.

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[YEH]

^ People are underestimating the cost of a bespoke RWD platform, not to mention that the GV80 has quite a few aluminum body panels to further cut weight.

The Telluride and Palisade are on a prior-gen FWD platform; the next gen models will get the new N3 platform that underpins the Sonata and the upcoming new Optima.

As nice as the interior of the top-spec Telluride and Palisade are, they simply don't compare to the top-end GV80's interior and the GV80 also gets a good bit more tech/amenities like RANC and soft-closing doors.

And then there's all the lux service amenities like loaner vehicles, valet service, included maintenance, map/traffic updates, etc.

Prices for the GV80 actually go higher in Korea as the US market won't offer everything that the KDM does.

 

[OaktownACE]

Interesting take. Do you think the same applies to their sedans?

I do. I think there’s a TON of value in the Genesis cars but they haven’t had their LS400 moment to quote Car and Driver and haven’t made the jump upwards in cachet.

I live in brand conscious LA and while there’s an interesting movement to find the best normal brand car for the money, sort of a mini anti lux brand movement, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Tesla, Volvo still reign supreme. I’ve had a family member who buys a new Mercedes S class every two years switch to Genesis for one rotation. He loved the value but at a certain level you can afford everything and the Genesis lacked in some of the small refinements the Mercedes had. He went back to the S class the next purchase.

Genesis can’t just be a value proposition, it’s got to be superior fit and finish and service wise. At the high end it’s just expected especially when most in the segment can afford what they want. Everyone wants to save money but people are less willing to make smaller sacrifices at the high end because they don’t have to.

 

[pbinde]

I know plenty of people with Rolls Royce money driving an Equis/G90. I think people know of its value. And those who don't know, who think an x7 loaded is actually worth 2x a fully loaded Telluride, they can spend their money on those other vehicles, while we get an amazing car without breaking the bank!

And after 12 years in Jeeps, it is nice having a car that is rare on the road. I see a ton more ugly g wagons.

 

[OaktownACE]

I know plenty of people with Rolls Royce money driving an Equis/G90. I think people know of its value. And those who don't know, who think an x7 loaded is actually worth 2x a fully loaded Telluride, they can spend their money on those other vehicles, while we get an amazing car without breaking the bank!

And after 12 years in Jeeps, it is nice having a car that is rare on the road. I see a ton more ugly g wagons.

I agree and that’s why we went Telluride instead of a brand that in truth didn’t match our needs as much as the Telluride. Plus my wife like how it looked best, lol.

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[Average Joe]

I do. I think there’s a TON of value in the Genesis cars but they haven’t had their LS400 moment to quote Car and Driver and haven’t made the jump upwards in cachet.

I live in brand conscious LA and while there’s an interesting movement to find the best normal brand car for the money, sort of a mini anti lux brand movement, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Tesla, Volvo still reign supreme. I’ve had a family member who buys a new Mercedes S class every two years switch to Genesis for one rotation. He loved the value but at a certain level you can afford everything and the Genesis lacked in some of the small refinements the Mercedes had. He went back to the S class the next purchase.

Genesis can’t just be a value proposition, it’s got to be superior fit and finish and service wise. At the high end it’s just expected especially when most in the segment can afford what they want. Everyone wants to save money but people are less willing to make smaller sacrifices at the high end because they don’t have to.

True

 

[YEH]

I do. I think there’s a TON of value in the Genesis cars but they haven’t had their LS400 moment to quote Car and Driver and haven’t made the jump upwards in cachet.

I live in brand conscious LA and while there’s an interesting movement to find the best normal brand car for the money, sort of a mini anti lux brand movement, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Tesla, Volvo still reign supreme. I’ve had a family member who buys a new Mercedes S class every two years switch to Genesis for one rotation. He loved the value but at a certain level you can afford everything and the Genesis lacked in some of the small refinements the Mercedes had. He went back to the S class the next purchase.

The moment for the LS 400 has been long gone, and this has been seen in drastically declining sales for Lexus' RWD sedans (IS, GS and LS).

The LS is selling in the 300s-400s/month and not even hitting 50% of Lexus' pretty modest sales goal of 1k/month.

Ever since the F/L G90 launched in Canada, it has been outselling the LS 500.

Now, don't quite expect the same outcome for here, but at the same time wouldn't be surprised if the F/L G90 sales were on par w/ the LS for certain months (as an aside, the pre-F/L had been beating the LS in comparison tests).

Ever since its launch (as the Genesis sedan), the Genesis/G80 has pretty much been outselling the GS and the new upcoming model (which is the best Genesis design done to date; better than the GV80) should see sales spike to previous levels.

The GS, otoh, seems destined for automotive history and will likely be discontinued.

Sales of the IS have also tanked and it's being outsold by the Kia Stinger (which is a niche body-style).

Aside from a few GX/LX and a rare LS every now and then, don't see too many Lexus in the really affluent neighborhoods (where the Range Rover, GLS, X7 and Cayenne are a dime a dozen).

Genesis can’t just be a value proposition, it’s got to be superior fit and finish and service wise. At the high end it’s just expected especially when most in the segment can afford what they want. Everyone wants to save money but people are less willing to make smaller sacrifices at the high end because they don’t have to.

Granted, the really high-end market particularly tough to crack, but think Genesis is better positioned than Lexus over the long haul.

The best way to crack this market is w/ striking/compelling sheetmetal and richly appointed and elegant interiors.

The new G80 being a design that's more compelling than the GV80.

Compare that w/ the F/L for the E Class - which wasn't a looker to begin w/.

Reviews have been nothing but positive when it comes to Genesis fit and finish; the areas of criticism have been for quality of materials in certain areas such as for the outgoing G80, but that has more than been addressed w/ the new model.

 

[kane]

The moment for the LS 400 has been long gone, and this has been seen in drastically declining sales for Lexus' RWD sedans (IS, GS and LS).

The LS is selling in the 300s-400s/month and not even hitting 50% of Lexus' pretty modest sales goal of 1k/month.

Ever since the F/L G90 launched in Canada, it has been outselling the LS 500.

Now, don't quite expect the same outcome for here, but at the same time wouldn't be surprised if the F/L G90 sales were on par w/ the LS for certain months (as an aside, the pre-F/L had been beating the LS in comparison tests).

Ever since its launch (as the Genesis sedan), the Genesis/G80 has pretty much been outselling the GS and the new upcoming model (which is the best Genesis design done to date; better than the GV80) should see sales spike to previous levels.

The GS, otoh, seems destined for automotive history and will likely be discontinued.

Sales of the IS have also tanked and it's being outsold by the Kia Stinger (which is a niche body-style).

Aside from a few GX/LX and a rare LS every now and then, don't see too many Lexus in the really affluent neighborhoods (where the Range Rover, GLS, X7 and Cayenne are a dime a dozen).




Granted, the really high-end market particularly tough to crack, but think Genesis is better positioned than Lexus over the long haul.

The best way to crack this market is w/ striking/compelling sheetmetal and richly appointed and elegant interiors.

The new G80 being a design that's more compelling than the GV80.

Compare that w/ the F/L for the E Class - which wasn't a looker to begin w/.

Reviews have been nothing but positive when it comes to Genesis fit and finish; the areas of criticism have been for quality of materials in certain areas such as for the outgoing G80, but that has more than been addressed w/ the new model.

Wish to see the Sedans back in action again. Lot of Crossovers and SUVs around.

 

[OaktownACE]

The moment for the LS 400 has been long gone, and this has been seen in drastically declining sales for Lexus' RWD sedans (IS, GS and LS).

The LS is selling in the 300s-400s/month and not even hitting 50% of Lexus' pretty modest sales goal of 1k/month.

Ever since the F/L G90 launched in Canada, it has been outselling the LS 500.

Now, don't quite expect the same outcome for here, but at the same time wouldn't be surprised if the F/L G90 sales were on par w/ the LS for certain months (as an aside, the pre-F/L had been beating the LS in comparison tests).

Ever since its launch (as the Genesis sedan), the Genesis/G80 has pretty much been outselling the GS and the new upcoming model (which is the best Genesis design done to date; better than the GV80) should see sales spike to previous levels.

The GS, otoh, seems destined for automotive history and will likely be discontinued.

Sales of the IS have also tanked and it's being outsold by the Kia Stinger (which is a niche body-style).

Aside from a few GX/LX and a rare LS every now and then, don't see too many Lexus in the really affluent neighborhoods (where the Range Rover, GLS, X7 and Cayenne are a dime a dozen).




Granted, the really high-end market particularly tough to crack, but think Genesis is better positioned than Lexus over the long haul.

The best way to crack this market is w/ striking/compelling sheetmetal and richly appointed and elegant interiors.

The new G80 being a design that's more compelling than the GV80.

Compare that w/ the F/L for the E Class - which wasn't a looker to begin w/.

Reviews have been nothing but positive when it comes to Genesis fit and finish; the areas of criticism have been for quality of materials in certain areas such as for the outgoing G80, but that has more than been addressed w/ the new model.

You missed my point on the LS400 moment. It's explained in the Car and Drive 10 Best article on the Telluride. Basically it's the moment they produce a car so amazing at such a great value that it elevates the brand into a higher level in the car hierarchy. Genesis really hasn't done that yet. It has nothing to do with the current Lexus cars. I didn't explain that very well in my earlier post.

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[YEH]

* Totally understood it.

But what you missed is my point that the effect of the LS400 moment has dissipated, hence, Lexus struggling to sell their higher-priced RWD sedans and sales largly being made up of cheaper Avalon, Highlander (and the old on at that presently), RAV-4 and CH-R-based models.

What effect do you think that has made on the Lexus brand and it will continue to get worse as the GS will likely get discontinued, and Lexus trying to fill the gap w/ the next ES?

You've got numerous reviews stating why get the MDX, RX/RX-L or even the new XT6 when one can get a top-trim Telluride or Palisade.

Meanwhile all the discussion on the GV80 being that its a credible competitor to the Germans (and the Aviator) - something you don't hear about the FWD/transverse Japanese lux CUVs.

A major reason for the drastic decline in Lexus RWD sedan sales (yes, lux sedans sales have been declining, but not nearly to the extent of what Lexus has seen) is that Toyota has been slow to invest - whether it be updating them w/ new powertrains, much less next gen models (their UI is simply horrible).

The reason for that is the likelihood of poor ROI, as the Lexus RWD sedans don't sell well in Japan and sales in their only significant market (the US) waning.

Meanwhile, Hyundai continues to heavily invest in new RWD models for Genesis.

Now, things will change as electrification makes its way into the 2 brands, but Hyundai has been ahead of Toyota when it comes to BEVs.

The first all-electric Genesis (a CUV) will launch in 2021 and should be getting input on the performance side from Rimac (as Hyundai has an investment in Rimac).

 

[bruesjoh04]

You missed my point on the LS400 moment. It's explained in the Car and Drive 10 Best article on the Telluride. Basically it's the moment they produce a car so amazing at such a great value that it elevates the brand into a higher level in the car hierarchy. Genesis really hasn't done that yet. It has nothing to do with the current Lexus cars. I didn't explain that very well in my earlier post.

The G70 was Motor Trend’s car of the year last year and also was a Car and Driver 10 Best. Maybe not a true “LS400 moment,” but it received many of the same accolades that the Telluride has.

I think the biggest problem Genesis has been facing (until now) is the lack of an SUV. Everyone wants SUVs, especially luxury ones. And they were completely missing out on that market.

 

[YEH]

^ The G70 also won NAIAS COTY and the Best of the Best for Canada.

Problem for the G70 (aside from not being a CUV) is its relatively anonymous design (about on par w/ the new 3 Series and better than the C Class and A4 - but nothing special) and in particular, its cramped rear.

The F/L somewhat fixes the former (too bad the interior isn't going to get the new design language), but the latter won't get addressed until the next gen model.