Latest info on ordering through KFOS

[kiasalesmidwest]

I won't disagree with you on the portion a salesperson might get since I have no idea how they handle them, but there is absolutely no way that margin on Kia vehicles is that small. That might be what they tell you guys so you believe them. However when the average Kia on many dealers sites (non Telluride) is listed for $3k-8k or in some cases $10k or more under sticker, there is absolutely no way I'm buying that there's only $600 to work with in what a dealer is paying on a Telluride vs. MSRP. Dealers will say that all day long, about how they aren't making any money (poor them, can't possibly budge on price or their kids won't eat) but when you see a Sorento SX which is fairly loaded around $43.5k being listed on their site for $37k... you start smelling what they're stepping in if you know what I mean.

If the Telluride wasn't so hot right now, you'd be seeing the same... Even at the $5k off MSRP that is listed on these other vehicles, they're going downwards from there negotiation wise on many of them. All while still making a profit! So yes, see how I struggle with the dealer BS.

Those discounts include all applicable rebates, if a car has a $5000 rebate you can get $5000 off which comes from Kia, if they show a 7k discount that includes military, college grad, loyalty etc etc etc (there are more). And no, most people do NOT get the online prices, the online prices include every single possible rebate and the full dealer discount down to invoice. Some of the higher trim vehicles like an SXL Sorento might have 2k in dealer margin and a 5k rebate at certain points, which if the dealer gives up all of their profit would result in 7k off. Once in a blue moon a dealer might take a nasty lose money deal to hit their manufacturer goal, but it isn't the norm. The manufacturer rebate is not a dealer discount.

For example - A base Optima has $500 in markup from invoice, the secret "holdback" money people like you like to bring up is $355 on that car for example. They were $5000 off last month because they had a 5k rebate. Most dealers had them listed at 7k off which includes ALL rebates. Does a top line Optima have a bit more margin? Yes, but not as much as you think.

A top line Telluride has $2200 in dealer profit from invoice to sticker, if anyone ever gets 7k off a Telluride it will be because they drop a $5,000 rebate on it. If the customer just takes the rebate, a salesperson gets paid 25 percent of the invoice to sticker amount AFTER $500 ish in dealer fees are subtracted from the profit they pay the salesperson on (the clean up and detail fee they charge to the salespeople etc etc, any free promotions or oil changes and any type of dealer Pack, pack means profit protected against commission)

Unless you have worked at dealer management level, please don't tell me how things work at my place of business. You really have no idea how it works, everyone seems to think they know how all this works yet they have never worked a day in the business. And yes, the dealer can make money on financing, that money goes to the finance managers NOT the salespeople.

A Kia sold at a 9k discount is NOT making the dealer a profit, it's a unit sold to hopefully generate service revenue. Lets say they sell it below invoice plus rebate, if they make $2000 in finance its a wash out zero net deal. There's a reason Forbes put out an article a few months about showing the average dealer LOSES $7,000 on their new car department and has to make it up in used cars and service. A friend of mine runs a large Honda store, they are profitable, however their new car dept LOST $9000 total selling 200 new cars - it was made up for in Used and Service. With everyone wanting things at "dealer cost" or "invoice" it takes the margin away from new cars.


My whole point was to be kind to the salespeople, not to argue with someone who has NO idea of what they are talking about. So many customers come in and treat these kids horribly.

Happy Shopping

 

[critrider]

Those discounts include all applicable rebates, if a car has a $5000 rebate you can get $5000 off which comes from Kia, if they show a 7k discount that includes military, college grad, loyalty etc etc etc (there are more). And no, most people do NOT get the online prices, the online prices include every single possible rebate and the full dealer discount down to invoice. Some of the higher trim vehicles like an SXL Sorento might have 2k in dealer margin and a 5k rebate at certain points, which if the dealer gives up all of their profit would result in 7k off. Once in a blue moon a dealer might take a nasty lose money deal to hit their manufacturer goal, but it isn't the norm. The manufacturer rebate is not a dealer discount.

For example - A base Optima has $500 in markup from invoice, the secret "holdback" money people like you like to bring up is $355 on that car for example. They were $5000 off last month because they had a 5k rebate. Most dealers had them listed at 7k off which includes ALL rebates. Does a top line Optima have a bit more margin? Yes, but not as much as you think.

A top line Telluride has $2200 in dealer profit from invoice to sticker, if anyone ever gets 7k off a Telluride it will be because they drop a $5,000 rebate on it. If the customer just takes the rebate, a salesperson gets paid 25 percent of the invoice to sticker amount AFTER $500 ish in dealer fees are subtracted from the profit they pay the salesperson on (the clean up and detail fee they charge to the salespeople etc etc, any free promotions or oil changes and any type of dealer Pack, pack means profit protected against commission)

Unless you have worked at dealer management level, please don't tell me how things work at my place of business. You really have no idea how it works, everyone seems to think they know how all this works yet they have never worked a day in the business. And yes, the dealer can make money on financing, that money goes to the finance managers NOT the salespeople.

A Kia sold at a 9k discount is NOT making the dealer a profit, it's a unit sold to hopefully generate service revenue. Lets say they sell it below invoice plus rebate, if they make $2000 in finance its a wash out zero net deal. There's a reason Forbes put out an article a few months about showing the average dealer LOSES $7,000 on their new car department and has to make it up in used cars and service. A friend of mine runs a large Honda store, they are profitable, however their new car dept LOST $9000 total selling 200 new cars - it was made up for in Used and Service. With everyone wanting things at "dealer cost" or "invoice" it takes the margin away from new cars.


My whole point was to be kind to the salespeople, not to argue with someone who has NO idea of what they are talking about. So many customers come in and treat these kids horribly.

Happy Shopping

it's all needlessly complicated the manufacturers should just sell the car directly to me....I I've yet to hear a compelling arguement against direct sales and service

 

[crimscrem]

Those discounts include all applicable rebates, if a car has a $5000 rebate you can get $5000 off which comes from Kia, if they show a 7k discount that includes military, college grad, loyalty etc etc etc (there are more). And no, most people do NOT get the online prices, the online prices include every single possible rebate and the full dealer discount down to invoice. Some of the higher trim vehicles like an SXL Sorento might have 2k in dealer margin and a 5k rebate at certain points, which if the dealer gives up all of their profit would result in 7k off. Once in a blue moon a dealer might take a nasty lose money deal to hit their manufacturer goal, but it isn't the norm. The manufacturer rebate is not a dealer discount.

For example - A base Optima has $500 in markup from invoice, the secret "holdback" money people like you like to bring up is $355 on that car for example. They were $5000 off last month because they had a 5k rebate. Most dealers had them listed at 7k off which includes ALL rebates. Does a top line Optima have a bit more margin? Yes, but not as much as you think.

A top line Telluride has $2200 in dealer profit from invoice to sticker, if anyone ever gets 7k off a Telluride it will be because they drop a $5,000 rebate on it. If the customer just takes the rebate, a salesperson gets paid 25 percent of the invoice to sticker amount AFTER $500 ish in dealer fees are subtracted from the profit they pay the salesperson on (the clean up and detail fee they charge to the salespeople etc etc, any free promotions or oil changes and any type of dealer Pack, pack means profit protected against commission)

Unless you have worked at dealer management level, please don't tell me how things work at my place of business. You really have no idea how it works, everyone seems to think they know how all this works yet they have never worked a day in the business. And yes, the dealer can make money on financing, that money goes to the finance managers NOT the salespeople.

A Kia sold at a 9k discount is NOT making the dealer a profit, it's a unit sold to hopefully generate service revenue. Lets say they sell it below invoice plus rebate, if they make $2000 in finance its a wash out zero net deal. There's a reason Forbes put out an article a few months about showing the average dealer LOSES $7,000 on their new car department and has to make it up in used cars and service. A friend of mine runs a large Honda store, they are profitable, however their new car dept LOST $9000 total selling 200 new cars - it was made up for in Used and Service. With everyone wanting things at "dealer cost" or "invoice" it takes the margin away from new cars.


My whole point was to be kind to the salespeople, not to argue with someone who has NO idea of what they are talking about. So many customers come in and treat these kids horribly.

Happy Shopping

Is there a rule of thumb on used car sales? Like are dealerships looking to make a certain percentage or a couple hundred profit (taking into consideration cost to clean and get ready for sale)? Obviously the more the better, but trying to figure out the logic (if any) with trade in values.

 

[Coolnwo]

Is there a rule of thumb on used car sales? Like are dealerships looking to make a certain percentage or a couple hundred profit (taking into consideration cost to clean and get ready for sale)? Obviously the more the better, but trying to figure out the logic (if any) with trade in values.

The rule of thumb is to have a one to one new/used ratio. You do make money on new but lot of it is through Finance. These dealers might lose money on new cars upfront but they get huge kickbacks from the OEM with volume and other incentives. You are either a good dealer or group or you get bought by the big boys.

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[alexdrums]

Those discounts include all applicable rebates, if a car has a $5000 rebate you can get $5000 off which comes from Kia, if they show a 7k discount that includes military, college grad, loyalty etc etc etc (there are more). And no, most people do NOT get the online prices, the online prices include every single possible rebate and the full dealer discount down to invoice. Some of the higher trim vehicles like an SXL Sorento might have 2k in dealer margin and a 5k rebate at certain points, which if the dealer gives up all of their profit would result in 7k off. Once in a blue moon a dealer might take a nasty lose money deal to hit their manufacturer goal, but it isn't the norm. The manufacturer rebate is not a dealer discount.

For example - A base Optima has $500 in markup from invoice, the secret "holdback" money people like you like to bring up is $355 on that car for example. They were $5000 off last month because they had a 5k rebate. Most dealers had them listed at 7k off which includes ALL rebates. Does a top line Optima have a bit more margin? Yes, but not as much as you think.

A top line Telluride has $2200 in dealer profit from invoice to sticker, if anyone ever gets 7k off a Telluride it will be because they drop a $5,000 rebate on it. If the customer just takes the rebate, a salesperson gets paid 25 percent of the invoice to sticker amount AFTER $500 ish in dealer fees are subtracted from the profit they pay the salesperson on (the clean up and detail fee they charge to the salespeople etc etc, any free promotions or oil changes and any type of dealer Pack, pack means profit protected against commission)

Unless you have worked at dealer management level, please don't tell me how things work at my place of business. You really have no idea how it works, everyone seems to think they know how all this works yet they have never worked a day in the business. And yes, the dealer can make money on financing, that money goes to the finance managers NOT the salespeople.

A Kia sold at a 9k discount is NOT making the dealer a profit, it's a unit sold to hopefully generate service revenue. Lets say they sell it below invoice plus rebate, if they make $2000 in finance its a wash out zero net deal. There's a reason Forbes put out an article a few months about showing the average dealer LOSES $7,000 on their new car department and has to make it up in used cars and service. A friend of mine runs a large Honda store, they are profitable, however their new car dept LOST $9000 total selling 200 new cars - it was made up for in Used and Service. With everyone wanting things at "dealer cost" or "invoice" it takes the margin away from new cars.


My whole point was to be kind to the salespeople, not to argue with someone who has NO idea of what they are talking about. So many customers come in and treat these kids horribly.

Happy Shopping

In general nobody treats those poor kids more horribly than the dealership themselves. Being a new salesman at most dealerships has to be one of the worst jobs, because you are being continually disrespected by the customers and your employer.
I usually look to speak to the manger or finance guy right away and bypass the poor kid, because they are way more sincere about trying to extract every last dollar from me during my car purchase!

 

[raydog9379]

In general nobody treats those poor kids more horribly than the dealership themselves. Being a new salesman at most dealerships has to be one of the worst jobs, because you are being continually disrespected by the customers and your employer.
I usually look to speak to the manger or finance guy right away and bypass the poor kid, because they are way more sincere about trying to extract every last dollar from me during my car purchase!

When we went car shopping, we walked into a GMC dealer to check out a Yukon Denali and it must have been some young kid's turn. He looks at my wife and said "who's the lucky person getting the new car"... I was like oh God here we go. He fumbled through the whole thing, but I guess you have to start somewhere. When we realized that the Yukon wasn't going to fit us unless we got an XL, we left there and went to try out a Telluride.

Regardless, we were respectful to the kid. I'm sure it's next to impossible as a new kid at most dealers, as it always seems any internet contact customers or referrals go right to pretty much whomever the top people are automatically.

 

[ronhUGA]

I just got a call from my dealership's GSM. He wanted to go over my order info from K Dealer to input it into KFOS today. Once it's entered into KFOS what kind of time frame are we talking about? The GSM was reluctant to put a number on it. My dealer is Ed Voyles in Smyrna, GA and they are a pretty high volume dealer.

 

[StephenCantrelle]

I just got a call from my dealership's GSM. He wanted to go over my order info from K Dealer to input it into KFOS today. Once it's entered into KFOS what kind of time frame are we talking about? The GSM was reluctant to put a number on it. My dealer is Ed Voyles in Smyrna, GA and they are a pretty high volume dealer.

Sounds like you are going to be in this round for this month.. it’s hard to say ETA at this point but when it gets accepted and filled you will know ETA. You will get confirmation next week around the 20th

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[TheBigHouse]

Since tomorrow is the 15th, are dealers starting to find out their February allocation amounts? It will be interesting to see if the number of allocations are increased vs recent months for the dealers on this forum

 

[StephenCantrelle]

Since tomorrow is the 15th, are dealers starting to find out their February allocation amounts? It will be interesting to see if the number of allocations are increased vs recent months for the dealers on this forum

Yes I’m excited to see.. the math isn’t exciting..

25k additional units % 850 stores =29 each
29 % 12 months in year= 2.45 additional units a month
But not all stores are equally assigned allocation so being a higher volume store I’m hoping to see a 4-5 car increase a month.. we will see

 

[ronhUGA]

Sounds like you are going to be in this round for this month.. it’s hard to say ETA at this point but when it gets accepted and filled you will know ETA. You will get confirmation next week around the 20th

Thanks, Stephen!

 

[TheBigHouse]

Damn you and your fancy math!

And oops, I meant Saturday is the 15th, not tomorrow

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[MarcinTexas]

Yes I’m excited to see.. the math isn’t exciting..

25k additional units % 850 stores =29 each
29 % 12 months in year= 2.45 additional units a month
But not all stores are equally assigned allocation so being a higher volume store I’m hoping to see a 4-5 car increase a month.. we will see

I can't wait to hear what you all get this month. Shoot me a text as soon as you hear how it impacts my ETA this summer.

 

[StephenCantrelle]

I can't wait to hear what you all get this month. Shoot me a text as soon as you hear how it impacts my ETA this summer.

Absolutely will do!

 

[php]

I just got a call from my dealership's GSM. He wanted to go over my order info from K Dealer to input it into KFOS today. Once it's entered into KFOS what kind of time frame are we talking about? The GSM was reluctant to put a number on it. My dealer is Ed Voyles in Smyrna, GA and they are a pretty high volume dealer.

Hi Ron,
I got a call from John the GSM at Ed Voyles today as well to put my K dealer order into KFOS. I originally ordered and put a deposit back on November 25. When putting my order in he said the price has gone up around $600 vs. the price he provided by on November 25. He said it's because Kia corporate increased the base model price and prices on the options which I understand from this forum Kia has done recently. However, I told we had agreed to a price already and that he should honor the original price we had agreed to but he would not budge. Wondering if you ran into a similar situation on the pricing change.

 

[pbinde]

Hi Ron,
I got a call from John the GSM at Ed Voyles today as well to put my K dealer order into KFOS. I originally ordered and put a deposit back on November 25. When putting my order in he said the price has gone up around $600 vs. the price he provided by on November 25. He said it's because Kia corporate increased the base model price and prices on the options which I understand from this forum Kia has done recently. However, I told we had agreed to a price already and that he should honor the original price we had agreed to but he would not budge. Wondering if you ran into a similar situation on the pricing change.

I ordered mine in October and received it after the price increase but the window sticker and the amount we agreed to was the original pricing. You made a deposit based on the price when you placed the order and incentives when it is delivered right?

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[jw_tx21]

I ordered mine in October and received it after the price increase but the window sticker and the amount we agreed to was the original pricing. You made a deposit based on the price when you placed the order and incentives when it is delivered right?

We believe that it depends on when it was factory allocated (FA), not the order date. In the above poster's case, since it is going into KFOS now, the pricing would need to be the current price. Yours must have been FA and/or built before the price increase.

 

[Coolnwo]

In Atlanta also. Curious If Ed Voyles is charging over? It seems like these guys are putting the orders now VS when you thought they were.

 

[php]

I ordered mine in October and received it after the price increase but the window sticker and the amount we agreed to was the original pricing. You made a deposit based on the price when you placed the order and incentives when it is delivered right?

Correct. I placed order in Nov and they put in kdealer but not in KFOS. There was a a list 10 folks ahead of me waiting on Telluride. I made deposit based on what I thought the price would be taxes and fees included. Agree on incentives they told the incentives may or may not be available when the telluride is delivered.

 

[php]

In Atlanta also. Curious If Ed Voyles is charging over? It seems like these guys are putting the orders now VS when you thought they were.

They charged me msrp + fees/taxes. They tried to charge me ~$2k for a package that tints windows, fixes dings, some spray that stops stains, etc. but told them absolutely not. At first they told me that there is no way they could subtract that but after a few running back and forth by the sales guy to the sales manager they agreed not to charge.

Yes they are putting in orders now vs when I thought which was back in Nov. Was expecting vehicle to be here end of Feb to middle March but since the order just went into KFOS, im assuming probably mid to late April now. Not sure if they got one by me or not. Some folks on the thread say 6 months is about right and but then it also feels like something went wrong because there were only 10 people in front of me since they should me there Excel list when I ordered and with the amount of SXs they get, I feel like I should have been in KFOS like last month or before.

Hoping for the best at this point. Hopefully no more hiccups.