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Headlight Led Upgrade
- Thread author Rich06
- Start date
reese0929
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Me Too!!! Tried 3 sets of bulbs. Thank God for Amazon Prime.
I was curious about the new GTR Lighting LED bulb. It reads well but you never know. They are not cheap at $199 but if they work. They claim not necessarily more light but more usable light by like 10X. That sounds like a lot but no telling what they compared it to. Maybe worth looking into if you could get them to send you a pair?
Found this quote regarding 2017’s addition to vehicle specific headlight testing with IIHS that I thought sums up the predicament,
“IIHS launched headlight ratings in the spring after finding that government standards based on laboratory tests allow for huge variation in the amount of illumination headlights provide in on-road driving.”
“IIHS launched headlight ratings in the spring after finding that government standards based on laboratory tests allow for huge variation in the amount of illumination headlights provide in on-road driving.”
2017 TOP SAFETY PICK+ winners meet new headlight criteria
Thirty-eight models earn Top Safety Pick+, the Institute's award for optimal crash protection and crash avoidance. Another 44 earn Top Safety Pick, which doesn't take headlights into account.
www.iihs.org
______________________________
JamesSaintPatrick
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Well I'm always open to donations and loans for testing! Headlight Revolution, you know where to find me
!The government has failed in regulating headlamps, but probably not in the way most people think.
45% of new vehicles roll out the factory with at least one headlamp misaimed. That number should be 0.0045%. The fact is that there is no federal law mandating that headlamps be aimed any particular way out the factory. Aim is the most important factor in headlamp performance.
The IIHS tests cars as-is, with no adjustments. The net result is that many vehicles could be rated higher, but aren't, thanks to poor aiming at the factory. The IIHS has acknowledged this fact. Independent research has also acknowledged this fact. The IIHS actually does this on purpose--test cars as-is, with no aim correction--because the IIHS itself has no regulatory power. All it can do is name n' shame. If the IIHS fixed the aim before testing, it would find that many (not all) headlamps are acceptable or good.
Consumer Reports actually has been doing headlamp testing for nearly 2 decades, but no one ever gives a crap about what CR thinks. That's because CR hasn't managed to capture the hearts and minds of consumers with their no-drama testing, unlike the IIHS. Consumer Reports takes the time to use laser aiming machines to adjust all headlamps before testing. Naturally, after laser alignment, many headlamps do fairly well. Contrast this with the IIHS, whose first headlamp testing headline was "One good rating out of 82." The fact of the matter is that there would have been ~40-50 acceptable to good ratings, had the aim been corrected, but the other fact of the matter is that few of the 82 cars actually had the correct aim dialed in. What's the juicier headline: "40 out of 82 cars do well on headlamp testing," or "One good rating out of 82"?
Basically: interpret IIHS results with caution.
It's a truly sorry state we find ourselves in. Manufacturers don't care about aim. The government doesn't care about aim. The only entity on "our" side is our insurance company, in the form of the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety). At least the insurance companies are doing something useful with our monthly premiums
!The IIHS actually records the aim for every vehicle they test, but this data is not publicized.
The numerical aim information for the Telluride is actually missing for some reason (see below). But there are still pictures. The IIHS documents all of its testing very well.
We can see that the left headlamp is aimed slightly low. The right portion of the cutoff should be resting on the green line. This one is just a tad low.
We can see that the right headlamp is aimed way too low. Again, the right portion of the cutoff should be resting on the green line. But this is the state that the headlamps are tested in.
You can clearly see two things here:
- The two headlamps, left and right, on the Telluride tested by the IIHS were not aimed the same
- The two headlamps, left and right, on the Telluride tested by the IIHS were both aimed slightly low
- The two headlamps, left and right, would be aimed the same
- The two headlamps, left and right, would be aimed correctly (cutoff resting exactly on the green laser line)
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Midtown10105
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Looking to upgrade an EXP with LED lights. Anyone sticking with the Hikari’s? If so, which do you recommend? I see three different models/ prices on Amazon. I’m not sure which one to get.
Thanks!
Thanks!
So I had a dark night and some time to do some low budget testing. Let me start by saying this was not using any special equipment. Just two free apps on my iPhone 6s that depend on the camera of the phone.
SCENARIO:
- Using a dark stretch of mostly road, I repurposed three Super Tuesday political signs (yes after the polls closed I swiped them but not before). All three were identical and white.
- The road I selected had no street light and is a long driveway leading to a community pool.
- I began by marking the parking spot for my vehicle then using Google Maps to measure a pinpoint out 100ft directly in front mostly level (within a foot of elevation) and I placed the first sign
- The second sign went out to roughly the 200ft mark at an elevation 2ft higher
- The third sign went out to roughly the 300ft mark at an elevation approximately 10ft higher elevation than the 100ft sign
- All signs were placed in the dirt just to the right of the road and the parking spot was close to flush with the sign if I were to drive straight. So the sign was just to the right of the headlight if driving flush to the right side of the road.
TOOLS:
- Google Maps on iPhone
- Free altimeter app on iPhone.
- Free light meter app on iPhone. I tried a different one at first but it could only measure lux at 100ft sign and registered nothing at the other two. While certainly the iPhone free app is not as precise as a light meter, it was consistently non-precise, meaning I used the same thing to measure, so rather than the actual number I concentrated on the difference between the other readings.
INVESTMENT:
- $100 for pair of Twelvolt 9005 Premium bulbs (PL-11G on package), advertised color temp 6000k
- $10 for one Sylvania Basic 9005 bulb
GOAL:
- I wanted to test straight ahead low beams only to measure the projector beam performance with a bulb on the right side. This is where I felt most likely a child or small animal could be coming into the lane of the vehicle. The IIHS tests appear to take 6 readings, 2 on either side (gradual curve and sharp curve left and right) and two straight ahead. I only wanted to create the right side straight projection.
METHOD:
- To test 2 low beam readings I measured the upper left part of each sign using the iPhone camera about 12in away each time.
- To test 1 low beam (right only) reading I measuring the same as 2 beam but I had a black coat covering the left headlight of the vehicle (I assumed I need to keep a bulb in the left side while measuring the right or else the CANbus system would scream at me).
- I used my control vehicle as a 2017 Hyundai Elantra Limited with Ultimate Package, which was the exact model that scored a TopSafetyPick+ from IIHS in part due to the headlights and was one of only 7 vehicles that year to receive the highest rating "Good" the first year IIHS started doing headlight testing. (The Elantra also has a curve adaptive halogen projector housing which likely helped it on the gradual left and right as well as the sharp left and right. I noticed that when Hyundai moved to LED projector housing in newer models of the same vehicle they removed the curve adaptive features, I'm guessing this may be because LED cast a wider luminance?).
- The Telluride I tested is a 2020 Kia Telluride S FWD purchased last March which likely means it was one of the first couple thousand off the assembly line and has a Halogen projector and received a rating of "Poor" from IIHS test.
HYPOTHESIS:
- I presumed the measurements would show that the Twelvolt LEDs would be an upgrade for projection over the Telluride OEM Halogens.
DISCLAIMER:
- I'm not claiming for these results to be highly accurate and I know some users on this forum will have more than a few things to say about my methods. I'm just trying to share some info followed by my observations. With better equipment and better testing conditions, I likely would have more accurate results.
2-bulb low beam test readings in lux:
1-bulb low beam test readings in lux:
MY OBSERVATIONS:
- At 100ft I was surprised that the Telluride OEM 2 bulb reading was higher and I suspect this was in part due to the daytime running light LEDs that may have been helping as with the 100ft reading on the 1 bulb test for the Twelvolt.
- I thought my testing would tell me that I preferred LEDs over Halogens, but in reality I focused less on the type of bulb and more on the color. It was honestly shocking to me how much more I preferred the cooler white light over the amber and felt safer driving with the white. While I was taking readings at the 300ft sign, I felt like I could read my notebook better when held up to the light when it was white light (even Halogen white) over the amber testing.
- While I didn't test the immediate 50ft in front between 50-100ft the side illuminance was in my opinion much better with the LED.
- HOLY CRAP were the Halogens hot to the touch! I knew they would be hot, but I was worried about burning my fingertips. The LEDs were warm to the touch but no where near the Halogens
- I picked the Sylvania Basic to test because of the chart that was posted earlier in this forum stating that the performance was the same between that and a more expensive bulb. I can say that I did not feel safe driving with the Sylvania Basic, there wasn't a dark spot, but I noticed shadows that weren't present with the other bulbs. Suffice to say, $10 bulbs will never be in my future. I did not feel safe at all with that one. The reading of 5 at 300ft may have been a little generous or inaccurate because I could barely read my paper and while driving back home with the Sylvania Basic on the right and the Kia OEM on the left side, I felt the OEMs are at least better than the cheapest bulbs on the market.
MY CONCLUSIONS:
- The OEM Telluride Halogen bulbs are more safe straight ahead projection than I originally suspected if I go by my potentially inaccurate lux readings. With that said, my mind may be playing tricks on me, I did not feel safer with amber over the white cooler light bulbs. I think the straight ahead projection of the Twelvolts LED Premium are acceptable to me. Even though the lux readings didn't blow me away like I thought they would, I'm still going to stay with them and I still consider them to be an upgrade especially for the immediate bumper to 50ft and side visibility. I likely would have been fine spending less and getting a white color medium to higher quality halogen bulb. (I'll save the amber lights for the dining room and reading lamps.) But when I consider the heat that the halogens put off and the potential benefit of longevity for LEDs, I feel no real regret about my purchase. I would not classify them as gimmicky because I think they performed adequately and have the potential to last me much longer than the current $20-50 halogen options on the market. I also feel that the Twelvolts are not so bright that they blind oncoming traffic which was important to me, white color halogens would have also met this buying criteria. I also originally felt that the Kia OEM Halogen bulbs were cheap quality, but now I'm less convinced and feel they are at least better than a 9005 $10 bulb at Walmart or my local auto parts store. To do it over again, I would still buy my 2020 Kia Telluride S FWD and replace the bulbs with some that I feel safer driving at night.
- The other conclusion I have started to make came after documenting this information I started reading about "Perceived Brightness." I think that's why I think my mind may be playing tricks on me. I think that because the LED and white color Halogens appear to cast a wider luminance my mind is telling me it is brighter. Either way I feel safer which means something to me.
SCENARIO:
- Using a dark stretch of mostly road, I repurposed three Super Tuesday political signs (yes after the polls closed I swiped them but not before). All three were identical and white.
- The road I selected had no street light and is a long driveway leading to a community pool.
- I began by marking the parking spot for my vehicle then using Google Maps to measure a pinpoint out 100ft directly in front mostly level (within a foot of elevation) and I placed the first sign
- The second sign went out to roughly the 200ft mark at an elevation 2ft higher
- The third sign went out to roughly the 300ft mark at an elevation approximately 10ft higher elevation than the 100ft sign
- All signs were placed in the dirt just to the right of the road and the parking spot was close to flush with the sign if I were to drive straight. So the sign was just to the right of the headlight if driving flush to the right side of the road.
TOOLS:
- Google Maps on iPhone
- Free altimeter app on iPhone.
- Free light meter app on iPhone. I tried a different one at first but it could only measure lux at 100ft sign and registered nothing at the other two. While certainly the iPhone free app is not as precise as a light meter, it was consistently non-precise, meaning I used the same thing to measure, so rather than the actual number I concentrated on the difference between the other readings.
INVESTMENT:
- $100 for pair of Twelvolt 9005 Premium bulbs (PL-11G on package), advertised color temp 6000k
- $10 for one Sylvania Basic 9005 bulb
GOAL:
- I wanted to test straight ahead low beams only to measure the projector beam performance with a bulb on the right side. This is where I felt most likely a child or small animal could be coming into the lane of the vehicle. The IIHS tests appear to take 6 readings, 2 on either side (gradual curve and sharp curve left and right) and two straight ahead. I only wanted to create the right side straight projection.
METHOD:
- To test 2 low beam readings I measured the upper left part of each sign using the iPhone camera about 12in away each time.
- To test 1 low beam (right only) reading I measuring the same as 2 beam but I had a black coat covering the left headlight of the vehicle (I assumed I need to keep a bulb in the left side while measuring the right or else the CANbus system would scream at me).
- I used my control vehicle as a 2017 Hyundai Elantra Limited with Ultimate Package, which was the exact model that scored a TopSafetyPick+ from IIHS in part due to the headlights and was one of only 7 vehicles that year to receive the highest rating "Good" the first year IIHS started doing headlight testing. (The Elantra also has a curve adaptive halogen projector housing which likely helped it on the gradual left and right as well as the sharp left and right. I noticed that when Hyundai moved to LED projector housing in newer models of the same vehicle they removed the curve adaptive features, I'm guessing this may be because LED cast a wider luminance?).
- The Telluride I tested is a 2020 Kia Telluride S FWD purchased last March which likely means it was one of the first couple thousand off the assembly line and has a Halogen projector and received a rating of "Poor" from IIHS test.
HYPOTHESIS:
- I presumed the measurements would show that the Twelvolt LEDs would be an upgrade for projection over the Telluride OEM Halogens.
DISCLAIMER:
- I'm not claiming for these results to be highly accurate and I know some users on this forum will have more than a few things to say about my methods. I'm just trying to share some info followed by my observations. With better equipment and better testing conditions, I likely would have more accurate results.
2-bulb low beam test readings in lux:
| vehicle | size | type | color | 100ft | 200ft | 300ft |
| Elantra | 9005 | OEM Halogen | White | 9 | 6 | 6 |
| Telluride | 9005 | OEM Halogen | Amber | 20 | 6 | 6 |
| Telluride | 9005 | Twelvolt LED | White | 17 | 6 | 6 |
1-bulb low beam test readings in lux:
| vehicle | size | type | color | 100ft | 200ft | 300ft |
| Elantra | 9005 | OEM Halogen | White | 6 | 6 | 6 |
| Telluride | 9005 | OEM Halogen | Amber | 6 | 6 | 6 |
| Telluride | 9005 | Twelvolt LED | White | 14 | 6 | 6 |
| Telluride | 9005 | Sylvania Basic Halogen | Amber | 6 | 6 | 5 |
MY OBSERVATIONS:
- At 100ft I was surprised that the Telluride OEM 2 bulb reading was higher and I suspect this was in part due to the daytime running light LEDs that may have been helping as with the 100ft reading on the 1 bulb test for the Twelvolt.
- I thought my testing would tell me that I preferred LEDs over Halogens, but in reality I focused less on the type of bulb and more on the color. It was honestly shocking to me how much more I preferred the cooler white light over the amber and felt safer driving with the white. While I was taking readings at the 300ft sign, I felt like I could read my notebook better when held up to the light when it was white light (even Halogen white) over the amber testing.
- While I didn't test the immediate 50ft in front between 50-100ft the side illuminance was in my opinion much better with the LED.
- HOLY CRAP were the Halogens hot to the touch! I knew they would be hot, but I was worried about burning my fingertips. The LEDs were warm to the touch but no where near the Halogens
- I picked the Sylvania Basic to test because of the chart that was posted earlier in this forum stating that the performance was the same between that and a more expensive bulb. I can say that I did not feel safe driving with the Sylvania Basic, there wasn't a dark spot, but I noticed shadows that weren't present with the other bulbs. Suffice to say, $10 bulbs will never be in my future. I did not feel safe at all with that one. The reading of 5 at 300ft may have been a little generous or inaccurate because I could barely read my paper and while driving back home with the Sylvania Basic on the right and the Kia OEM on the left side, I felt the OEMs are at least better than the cheapest bulbs on the market.
MY CONCLUSIONS:
- The OEM Telluride Halogen bulbs are more safe straight ahead projection than I originally suspected if I go by my potentially inaccurate lux readings. With that said, my mind may be playing tricks on me, I did not feel safer with amber over the white cooler light bulbs. I think the straight ahead projection of the Twelvolts LED Premium are acceptable to me. Even though the lux readings didn't blow me away like I thought they would, I'm still going to stay with them and I still consider them to be an upgrade especially for the immediate bumper to 50ft and side visibility. I likely would have been fine spending less and getting a white color medium to higher quality halogen bulb. (I'll save the amber lights for the dining room and reading lamps.) But when I consider the heat that the halogens put off and the potential benefit of longevity for LEDs, I feel no real regret about my purchase. I would not classify them as gimmicky because I think they performed adequately and have the potential to last me much longer than the current $20-50 halogen options on the market. I also feel that the Twelvolts are not so bright that they blind oncoming traffic which was important to me, white color halogens would have also met this buying criteria. I also originally felt that the Kia OEM Halogen bulbs were cheap quality, but now I'm less convinced and feel they are at least better than a 9005 $10 bulb at Walmart or my local auto parts store. To do it over again, I would still buy my 2020 Kia Telluride S FWD and replace the bulbs with some that I feel safer driving at night.
- The other conclusion I have started to make came after documenting this information I started reading about "Perceived Brightness." I think that's why I think my mind may be playing tricks on me. I think that because the LED and white color Halogens appear to cast a wider luminance my mind is telling me it is brighter. Either way I feel safer which means something to me.
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JamesSaintPatrick
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Wow, thank you for this thorough documentation of your results!
It is good to see that open minds still exist in this polarized day and age!
I am still interested in obtaining a Telluride lamp and a Twelvolt LED for bench testing. Only thing holding me back is the sheer investment! Maybe I'll head to the local junkyard and see if I can find a good unit.
It is good to see that open minds still exist in this polarized day and age!
I am still interested in obtaining a Telluride lamp and a Twelvolt LED for bench testing. Only thing holding me back is the sheer investment! Maybe I'll head to the local junkyard and see if I can find a good unit.
______________________________
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JonFar111
Well-known member
So, there are many aftermarket LEDS that don’t work well. There are some that cost close to $200. There are a 1000 threads about it. Amazing.
Projector headlights have been around for a long time and have always worked well. Xenon HID’s have been around for ages and work great. Great color. Spectacular illumination. No one flashing you.
There are outstanding canbus HID kits available for under $100. And installation is a 1 hour project if you’re talented and a bit longer if you aren’t.
I just don’t get all the LED frustration...
Projector headlights have been around for a long time and have always worked well. Xenon HID’s have been around for ages and work great. Great color. Spectacular illumination. No one flashing you.
There are outstanding canbus HID kits available for under $100. And installation is a 1 hour project if you’re talented and a bit longer if you aren’t.
I just don’t get all the LED frustration...
Jcorbink
New member
When your stopped and your car shuts off and turns back on again do your lights flash, the sea lights I have flash when the car shuts off and turns on when I’m at a stop light. My wife isn’t happy about it and I’m not happy my wife is not happy. I need a bright white light that doesn’t do that.
I think one of the points of many of the discussions is around the LED tip design and chip placement. The Twelvolts are different from most and advertised by the seller to work well with the Telluride specifically. I’m happy with mine. I would also be happy with Xenon HIDs provided they didn’t have that annoying blue tint. But if I’m not mistaken some of those run as much as LEDs and may require replacement sooner than LEDs. I think for Halogens it may be true that the higher advertised performance of the Halogen or HID means shorter life. While less per purchase you spend more over time for potentially more replacements. LEDs, if they last as long as they should, could be a one time investment.
The other issue may be that some Xenon HIDs are not legal in some states if they require an HID conversion kit, but legal if they came with Xenons HIDs from the factory. With LEDs most states consider them legal if they adequately illuminate up to 100ft in front of the vehicle.
Of course legal to sell and safe to drive don’t always equate to the same thing.
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I feel it is hardly noticeable with mine but I think it is still there. It could be that the Sealights reflect differently because of the flat tip (vs the angle on the Twelvolts) which is why you notice it more? I think to completely remove that you would need a resistor in-line. Maybe an auto lighting shop would have those? If you went with Xenon HIDs as previously mentioned in this thread, you would likely need an HID conversion kit to work with the CANbus system to prevent the flicker. But depending on your state you might have trouble passing inspection.
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JonFar111
Well-known member
I’ve NEVER had to replace a xenon HID bulb in any of my cars - ever. Been using HIDs since the mid 2000’s. My Toyota (replaced by the Telly) was 12 years old and the Xenon’s were as bright and white as the day I purchased the car.
JonFar111
Well-known member
HIDs are legal everywhere. Just need a ballast so they don’t flicker. EX HID Xenon headlight replacement
Awesome. That would make sense since the Xenon HIDs should get you to 10,000 hours. Whereas as halogens would get you up to 1,000 hours. I’m shooting for 50,000 hours with my LEDs as I’m hoping to get north of 250k+ miles. My Telluride also replaced a Toyota; a 2011 that I would have kept longer if not for an accident that was almost at 200,000 mi. And my Toyota before that was a 2004 with 197k. This NAPA website offers a good comparison.
I was speaking in general terms for all LED shopping for cars in response to your post about LED frustration as to a possible reason why some people consider LEDs. I didn’t mean to offend your decision to go Xenon HID.
That vague generic message in the Telluride manual about aftermarket HIDs that you replied to on a different post probably scares off some potential owners from doing the HID upgrade. Very limited visibility on dark roads
I checked the Telluride housing and it has an E marking so you are correct as long as you have a proper ballast installed, there should be no issue with running HIDs in a Telluride LX, S or EX specifically. It’s the cars that don’t have the E mark and/or the electrical gets installed incorrectly that have a problem with HIDs and could be a legal liability.
LEDs are just an easier install but more complicated shopping experience for the less DIY capable buyers who are willing to live with the flicker. That’s why I think there is “LED frustration.”
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Not the ideal solution, but its pretty easy to disable the auto shut off feature. The few drops of gas you waste probably outweighs your wife’s frustration.
______________________________
JonFar111
Well-known member
No offense perceived or taken!
Jcorbink
New member
Haha I know right, I told her to just turn it off...she said how?!? I think I’m going to try an HID kit as well. Great thing about amazon is being able to return stuff.
SVoigt
Active member
Did you see the info about different LED types and what they found worked best for different types of headlight mounts? Made sense to me, like you I hope to see someone do something for the Telluride specifically. Especially the way that they were doing it showing the lumens as well as the beam pattern displacement.
Ettingercj
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Did you have any issues getting the Twelvolt’s in? I tried today and Gould not get them to seat deep enough to be able to twist lock the tabs. Is there any tips? Tricks? Or secrets?
