I placed my 2023 Tellurude order in March but haven’t got a status on where I am in line. I am estimating Dec 2022 for delivery. Now with the EV9 for sale second half of 2023, I’m wondering if it’s better to wait or just get the Telluride and resell it when the EV9 comes. But are people still interested in buying second hand gas cars when everything is moving to electric? Is there any wait list for the EV9 yet?
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EV9
- Thread author irvineboy
- Start date
I think I read somewhere that Honda hasn't committed to going fully electric until 2040 so I suspect gas will ge around for sometime. Besides, I don't think the infrastructure is quite there for me to commit to EV. Maybe in 5 years, maybe in 10.
For everyday driving, you can just charge an EV at home. For longer trips, you can always rent a gas car. This is doable unless you travel a lot. Probably saves you a lot of money in gas in the long run, even better if you have solar.
Kia warranties theirs for 10 years/100K miles. What's the average lifespan of a gas engine? Do you own an EV? I own an EV with 70K miles and no problems with the battery.
Edit: Consumer Reports says average EV battery will last 200K miles.
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I could definitely see the benefit of the EV9 if you had a secondary vehicle for longer trips. For those with just one vehicle, I still think gas guzzlers, or better yet, hybrids is the way to go for now.
Definitely, transitioning to EV is easier if you have a second gas car. That's what we did. But after getting used to driving an EV and with the increased charging stations out there, I can get away with just EVs. Especially with Tesla's extensive supercharger network, I can take day trips with my EV with no issues. When I first got my EV, I took it to an area without superchargers within 40 miles. I had booked a hotel with a slow charger for our overnight stay, but those can be blocked by gas cars and, in this case, locals were using it to charge. Luckily, I was able to park in a spot overnight otherwise I would have to find some other slow charger and charge overnight. That's been the most nervous I've been traveling with my EV. As the charging network gets built out, these won't be issues. I think the EV9 will do well since there are no usable 3 row SUV EVs out there.
We are just conditioned to have to know where a gas station is when our vehicle hits the warning light. You can easily make a trip in an EV if you take a second to plan your stop or use an app and it is only getting better.
There is already decent public charging station availability and you wouldn’t be competing with the people that charge at home if you are on a longer trip.
pluginamerica.org
There are over 145,000 fueling stations in the US. All within range of a tanker truck being able to deliver fuel from a storage tank or pipeline. The average number of pumps per station is about 12 but how many times are all the pumps at all the stations being used all at once at every station? Plus people can’t refuel their vehicle in their garage so we are hostage to where there is a gas station.
Now compare that to EV charge ports estimated at 108,000 in 2021. There are close to 200,000 fast food restaurants in the US and since charge ports don’t need to be in a tanker delivery range or pipeline, they are all over. If just half of the fast food restaurants added one port and quick charging to 80% takes only 18 minutes you can very reasonably time a long trip with a rest stop or meal break. Then think what if shopping centers, grocery stores or sit down restaurants signed up to put a charging station in their parking lot to incentive your patronage. If you are driving long hours it is a good idea to work in a 15 minute break every 2.5-3 hours and modern EVs today can already do that. The tech is only getting better.
There is already decent public charging station availability and you wouldn’t be competing with the people that charge at home if you are on a longer trip.
Home - Plug In America
We are the voice of plug-in vehicle drivers across the country. Learn about the benefits of driving an EV.
pluginamerica.org
There are over 145,000 fueling stations in the US. All within range of a tanker truck being able to deliver fuel from a storage tank or pipeline. The average number of pumps per station is about 12 but how many times are all the pumps at all the stations being used all at once at every station? Plus people can’t refuel their vehicle in their garage so we are hostage to where there is a gas station.
Now compare that to EV charge ports estimated at 108,000 in 2021. There are close to 200,000 fast food restaurants in the US and since charge ports don’t need to be in a tanker delivery range or pipeline, they are all over. If just half of the fast food restaurants added one port and quick charging to 80% takes only 18 minutes you can very reasonably time a long trip with a rest stop or meal break. Then think what if shopping centers, grocery stores or sit down restaurants signed up to put a charging station in their parking lot to incentive your patronage. If you are driving long hours it is a good idea to work in a 15 minute break every 2.5-3 hours and modern EVs today can already do that. The tech is only getting better.
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Agreed, and as soon as gas stations, shopping centers and fast food restaurants start putting charging stations in I'll more seriously consider an EV as my main vehicle. Neither of you are wrong, this is just my feelings on the matter.We are just conditioned to have to know where a gas station is when our vehicle hits the warning light. You can easily make a trip in an EV if you take a second to plan your stop or use an app and it is only getting better.
There is already a decent public charging station and you wouldn’t be competing with the people that charge at home if you are on a longer trip.
Home - Plug In America
We are the voice of plug-in vehicle drivers across the country. Learn about the benefits of driving an EV.
There are over 145,000 fueling stations in the US. All within range of a tanker truck being able to deliver fuel from a storage tank or pipeline. The average number of pumps per station is about 12 but how many times are all the pumps at all the stations being used all at once at every station? Plus people can’t refuel their vehicle in their garage so we are hostage to where there is a gas station.
Now compare that to EV charge ports estimated at 108,000 in 2021. There are close to 200,000 fast food restaurants in the US and since charge ports don’t need to be in a tanker delivery range or pipeline, they are all over. If just half of the fast food restaurants added one port and quick charging to 80% takes only 18 minutes you can very reasonably time a long trip with a rest stop or meal break. Then think what if shopping centers, grocery stores or sit down restaurants signed up to put a charging station in their parking lot to incentive your patronage. If you are driving long hours it is a good idea to work in a 15 minute break every 2.5-3 hours and modern EVs today can already do that. The tech is only getting better.
The landscape will be changing very soon. Just one example, Vietnam’s VinFast to Build 2 EVs at New Factory in North Carolina
VinFast has a slightly different model. You buy the vehicle and lease the battery. I presume that also means you might be able to upgrade the battery when the lease is up.
ELCapiTRAN
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I'm not sure how that model will work because basically, it seems like you'll never own the car, since you'll have to keep paying the battery lease/rent/subscription or whatever they want to call it. The intial price of the car seems to be the attraction but then you have top pay about 2k every year just to keep the car running.
It’s not clear yet if they plan to have that same model in the US market. I agree. But if you are worried about the battery in the long run they appear to think they can make it profitable for as long as the vehicle still rolls.
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It's like a lease. Personally it sounds pretty good because I don't have faith these li-ion batteries will last 10 years while I believe these EVs could.
As for the EV9... seems like a 2025 release date. There's a gross shortage of battery materials and Kia wants to keep the prices down as a 100 kWh battery pack will be quite expensive.
There is real world evidence with Teslas that the batteries can last 300K+ miles. I have a 7 year old Tesla with 70K miles and my battery has only lost about 5% capacity. Some of the older Tesla batteries had issues and had to be replaced earlier. The discussions on the Tesla forums have been over the cost of replacing a battery out of warranty, which can run over $20K. Cheaper if done at third party.
There are plenty of examples of 2012-2014 Model Ss that need battery replacements. In fact, the number of people needing them is scary.
I'm sure there are batteries that last 300K, but with the current packs all it takes is a few cells to degrade badly and entire modules need to be replaced. I believe earlier Teslas had more modules (16 in the Model S) but now the modern Teslas have fewer modules (four in the 3 and Y).
The EV6 uses 32 modules so replacing a module might be easier - assuming this is possible.
A current Model 3 battery replacement costs $17.5K for Tesla. I don't foresee third party shops providing battery replacements if the EV9 doesn't sell 100K+ units in 4-5 years.
Failed Model 3 HV Battery - Out of Warranty - DIY
I am currently facing an interesting problem that I thought might be worth sharing with the community. A few weeks ago, I bought a clean title Model 3 LRRWD with FSD and 143k miles for $23k. The main catch was a HV battery with significant imbalance (one brick was 3.50V with all others at...
teslamotorsclub.com
Unless you are buying a 2012-2014 Tesla Model S, what makes you believe a new lithium ion battery in an EV will not last 10 years? All EVs have 8 or 10 year/100k mile warranty.There are plenty of examples of 2012-2014 Model Ss that need battery replacements. In fact, the number of people needing them is scary.
I'm sure there are batteries that last 300K, but with the current packs all it takes is a few cells to degrade badly and entire modules need to be replaced. I believe earlier Teslas had more modules (16 in the Model S) but now the modern Teslas have fewer modules (four in the 3 and Y).
The EV6 uses 32 modules so replacing a module might be easier - assuming this is possible.
A current Model 3 battery replacement costs $17.5K for Tesla. I don't foresee third party shops providing battery replacements if the EV9 doesn't sell 100K+ units in 4-5 years.
Failed Model 3 HV Battery - Out of Warranty - DIY
I am currently facing an interesting problem that I thought might be worth sharing with the community. A few weeks ago, I bought a clean title Model 3 LRRWD with FSD and 143k miles for $23k. The main catch was a HV battery with significant imbalance (one brick was 3.50V with all others at...
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That warranty is mandated by the US government. But the government didn’t specify what conditions. Some manufacturers say under 70% degradation. Some only allow full and complete failures.
We already had total battery recalls for the Kona and Bolt. And the ID.4 had an LG Chem battery recall too (I suspect the one I traded away back in the fall had a bad solder joint as per NHTSA notice). Taycans have had unusually high battery failures too.
Liquid electrolyte li-ion batteries were not designed to last long term. NMC/NCA batteries survive 1000ish charging cycles on average with some dying much earlier and some surviving 2000+ cycles. LFPs last 3000 cycles supposedly on average and I foresee most EVs using those because of costs and longevity.
You may not be giving this lithium ion technology enough credit. As demand goes up quickly, the cost to produce the batteries will go down and the quality of what you get will go up. Wright’s Law. The batteries that you see today will not be the same as the batteries in newer vehicles. Today the majority of the world gets their lithium from mines in China. The US only has one active lithium mine, we just haven’t ramped up mining and producing it. We haven’t had a need to because gas and car companies have been successful in convincing us for years that EVs are in the distant future. But the adoption and conversion is happening way faster than many predicted. Since the battery is the most expensive part of an EV and it is predicted that by 2023 the price of batteries will drop to a level that an EV will be less expensive to manufacture than gas powered car, that’s why all the car manufacturers are now wanting to make EVs.
I’m terms of technology growth and adoption, I don’t see an EV the same way I do an ICE car. I see it like a large computer or mobile phone we sit in with wheels.
Consider that less than 90 years ago there were people doubting that air travel would replace rail travel. Then mass producing airplanes became easier and more affordable to do than laying railroad tracks and building more trains. The future came faster.
I’m predicting that in less than 10 years it will be more costly to purchase, operate, and maintain a gas powered vehicle over an EV. The stuff we worried about over the past 10 years about EVs will be like the worries over adopting the first generation smart touchscreen phones that we don’t even think about now. Remember when people said don’t get rid of your landline? I recently had to explain to my young kids why the power lines being worked on overhead are mounted on something called telephone poles because that’s what I grew up calling them. My mistake I should have called them utility poles.
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Here’s a related article, as of 2 years ago Hyundai has a part of their company finding a way to profit off of recycling and reusing EV batteries.
Hyundai Motor Group, SK Innovation to Collaborate
I have seen articles where they set up proof of concept pods of recycled EV batteries the size of a trailer as a mobile power battery emergency backup for a hospital or business that loses power for an extended period of time. As more EVs get sold and the batteries age they will want to make sure the quality is high enough so they can get them back and extract more profit from recycling them.
Who knows, if oil companies and other special interests had not played a hand in killing the GM EV1 in the late 90s, innovation might have continued. EVs would be more mainstream, battery advancements would have been made sooner and Tesla might not have made Elon one of the richest people in the world. Either way, I have a 10kw DC solar panel system going in next month and hope to have a 90-100kWh EV in the garage in a few years powering my home to offset power company higher rate usage in the evening and overnight plus double as a whole home battery backup. Maybe I'll set up a PlugShare station in my driveway to make some profit by renting time to charge in my driveway while the EV charging network catches up.
Hyundai Motor Group, SK Innovation to Collaborate
I have seen articles where they set up proof of concept pods of recycled EV batteries the size of a trailer as a mobile power battery emergency backup for a hospital or business that loses power for an extended period of time. As more EVs get sold and the batteries age they will want to make sure the quality is high enough so they can get them back and extract more profit from recycling them.
Who knows, if oil companies and other special interests had not played a hand in killing the GM EV1 in the late 90s, innovation might have continued. EVs would be more mainstream, battery advancements would have been made sooner and Tesla might not have made Elon one of the richest people in the world. Either way, I have a 10kw DC solar panel system going in next month and hope to have a 90-100kWh EV in the garage in a few years powering my home to offset power company higher rate usage in the evening and overnight plus double as a whole home battery backup. Maybe I'll set up a PlugShare station in my driveway to make some profit by renting time to charge in my driveway while the EV charging network catches up.
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the EV infrastructure isn’t there yet to support...not enough fast chargers, charging times too long, charging station waits, vehicle is too expensive, potential fires, most repairs require a dealer (cause you’re driving a computer), cost of repairs, lack of dealerships, wait times at dealerships, courtesy vehicles may not be available, install a charger in your house, battery element mining, new battery cost, battery life, degraded battery range in cold weather and still charging off of a coal fueled plant...it’s not there yet...hybrids or plug in hybrids are the sweet spot right now
www.westernjournal.com
Journalist Takes Road Trip in Electric Car, Spends More Time Charging Than Sleeping - Now Says Gas Smells So Sweet
Thinking of taking a road trip in an electric vehicle? You might want to think again after reading about this nightmare journey.
www.westernjournal.com
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